Text 10142, 121 rader
Skriven 2007-01-14 00:45:46 av Richard Fallstrom (13562.babylon5)
     Kommentar till en text av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Ärende: Re: Suspension of disbelief - an open debate
====================================================
In article <M3aqh.62328$wP1.12191@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>,
Vorlonagent <nojtspam@otfresno.com> wrote:

> "Amy Guskin" <aisling@fjordstone.com> wrote in message 
> news:0001HW.C1CE55B1011A90AFF0182648@news.verizon.net...
> >>> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:23:07 -0500, Jeffrey MacHott wrote
> > (in article <veRph.65513$gL3.4494@fe12.news.easynews.com>):
> >
> >> Charlie Edmondson wrote:
> >>> David Williams wrote:
> >>>> OK...  Here we go.
> >>> <much snippage for saving of bandwidth... 8-) >
> >>>> So, does anyone else have any thoughts on the subject, and/or examples
> >>>> of violations of SoD they'd like to share?
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> David W.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Ok, I have my own SoD violation, in one of my favorite movie series - 
> >>> LotR!
> >>>
> >>> In Return of the King, during the big Minas Tirith battle, Legolas does
> >>> this fantastic fight on the Oliphant.  While I had been struggling up to
> >>> then to deal with the changes from the book, this sequence, obviously
> >>> added to just show how advanced the SFX were, took me right out of the
> >>> film with a huge groan!  But then, that is only my opinion...
> >>>
> >>> Charlie
> >>
> >> Ahh, is that the one with Legolas revealing that his feet are coated in
> >> Wacky Tacky?  Along similar lines, StarShip Troopers (yeah yeah, I
> >> know), with Johnny Rico doing the Tanker Bug Rodeo on Planet P.  In the
> >> same movie, the rather bottom-heavy order of battle of the Terran
> >> military forces, consisting almost entirely of infantry and ships that
> >> apparently serve only to carry them from place to place.  No armor, no
> >> light vehicles (ie: Jeeps, HMMMV's, Technicals, Warthogs, The Robert E.
> >> Lee with troopers firing shotguns from the windows while squealing
> >> excitedly, nothing), impressive but seemingly rarely utilized air
> >> support, with no CAS ability shown (despite the fact that Close Air
> >> Support is the perfect chance to show off special effects, involving
> >> fast moving shiny objects, things to be blown up, and lots of things
> >> blowing up).  That said, by the end of the movie, they DID at least
> >> partially rectify the problem by having the infantry equipped with
> >> ridiculously overpowered small arms, including a rifle that blows up
> >> mountains.
> >>
> >> Now that I think about it, the fact that the Terran Federation was using
> >> infantry in any large scale purpose in that war, when the nature of the
> >> enemy (swarming insects) would tend to make the war more appropriate for
> >> orbital bombardment and air strikes (air strikes especially handy what
> >> with the farter bugs being able to shoot down the ships in orbit) <<
> >
> > <sound of ungrokkable example zooming over Amy's head once again>
> 
> All Jeff's examples boil down to teamwork.  In this case, "lack of".
> 
> But of course, you need a team first.
> 
> An army...a REAL army... is effective because it has different kinds of 
> units with different abilities to cope with different kinds of problems. 
> Tanks, artillary, air support, they're all specialty players on the team and 
> work to massively improve how the footsoldier performs by clearing away the 
> stuff he/she has trouble dealing with.  These things are referred to as 
> "force multipliers" for this reason.  There are even different kinds of foot 
> soldiers.
> 
> For a more down-to-earth example of teamwork, consider the battle sequence 
> from the start of Gladiator where Maximus' forces take on some barbarians.
> 
> But back to Starship Troopers.  Wouldn't it have been nice to have some 
> starfighters in the air keeping those flying bugs off Our Heroes' backs? 
> (Technically CAS is strafing or dropping bombs.  We see this *once*)
> 
> At once point, we see Johnny Rico shoots a handheld "nuke" down a bug 
> tunnel.  It must've been the only one on the planet because nobody else used 
> one at any point in the movie.  They apparently also issued Rico the only 
> hand-grenade on the planet too (he uses it aganst the bug flame thrower). 
> Both weapons would have come in handy in that "Fort Apache" seige.  When you 
> have wall-to-wall bugs like that, you can toss out explosives to marvelous 
> effect.  But all the stupid humans had was varying flavors of machine gun.
> 
> Replace the Mobile Infantry with either the Allied or Axis forces from WWII 
> and the results would be a whole lot better because you'd see a team effort. 
> There'd be bombardment of the landing zone before an attempted invasion and 
> bombardment of enemy troop concentrations during the invasion.  There's be 
> airplanes overhead to keep the flying bugs busy (a piston-engine plane could 
> keep up with the flying bugs).  If/When the ground forces clear enough space 
> for there to be an actual backfield, transports start landing dropping off 
> tanks and artillary as well as fresh supplies of ammunition.  You run it 
> like a machine, which is why the military puts such a huge emphasis on 
> following orders. If the machaine goes *spoing*, people die.  Lots of them. 
> It's like that credit card commercial where the guy pays cash and brings the 
> whole restaurant to a crashing halt.  Only with much more blood.
> 
> The Mobile Infantry was a one-trick pony and the trick was poorly adapted to 
> the enemy.  For all intents and purposes, they had one unit type: gropo. 
> The gropo had one weapon: his machine gun and used only one tactic: frontal 
> assault.  There was more variety available to a Napoleonic army, even a 
> Greek or Roman army.  The bugs had their gropos, air support, flame 
> throwers...all kinds of stuff.  Is it any wonder the humans got trashed so 
> badly throughout the movie?  That kind of singleminded bloodletting is what 
> both sides did to themselves in World War I.
> 
> The one gripe I'd add was that during the first invasion the Earth ships 
> arranged themselves in neat little close-packed formations.  And got knocked 
> out of the sky by the "farter" bugs, collided with each other for further 
> damage.    They did the same dame thing in the second invasion and had the 
> same results.  What's the definition of "insanity...?"

One thing I can say about Starship Troopers is they vaguely used
Heinlein's theme. I would have written it as a miniseries and closer to
the book.

Rick
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