Text 10991, 119 rader
Skriven 2007-01-28 19:26:49 av Carl (14428.babylon5)
     Kommentar till en text av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Ärende: Re: My Presidential Pick for 2006
=========================================

"Josh Hill" <usereplyto@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:0ehqr21ecr5pgdqger0e27v7buakjsvp2o@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:52:26 -0600, "Carl" <cengman7@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"lizardgirl" <gabiks@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:1169957417.440682.222520@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 28 2006, 2:07 pm, "Vorlonagent" <nojts...@otfresno.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The thing about gay marriage is that the legal benefits of marriage
>>>>are bestowed by the government.  Those benefits are not "rights", they 
>>>>are
>>>>privileges.  Which means that the government must determine who 
>>>>qualifies
>>>>for those benefits.  It is within the government's rights and powers to
>>>>restrict legal marriage to heterosexuals.  It isn't necessarily the 
>>>>right
>>>>or
>>>>moral thing to do but there are lots of things that governments can
>>>>legally
>>>>do that aren't right or moral.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't buy the argument that marriage is a 'privilege' determinable
>>> by the government.  What was marriage before government?
>>
>>A religious ceremony that through history guaranteed the birthright
>>of children.  I don't think you wish to move the dictating authority
>>for marriage to the church, do you?
>
> Marriage antedates the Church, and anything resembling organized
> religion. And IIRC, the Church long recognized, may still recognize
> "common law" marriages.
>
>>Marriage is a privilege by the simple example that the government says 
>>that
>>a man or woman can't marry 5 women (or 5 men or any combination thereof)
>>concurrently.
>
> I don't think that saying that banning the misuse of something makes
> it a privilege. One can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater, yet
> freedom of speech is considered a right. And governments have often
> been known to trample on rights.

You're begging the question of "misuse" aren't you?

What is the defining difference that gives homosexual marriage a higher 
right
than polygamy among consenting adults?


>
>>The simple fact that states feel they may not have to recognize a marriage
>>from another state would also indicate fairly clearly that marriage
>>is a privilege.
>
> That would appear to be unconstitutional.

I suspect we'll eventually see if the Supreme Court agrees.

>
>>Marriage is official recognition of a a union, and it is up to the 
>>"official
>>body" to determine the requirements that it grants that recognition under.
>
> That was never the definition of marriage.

You're sidestepping the issue of definitions again.

Dictionary.com:

mar·riage
      1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their 
decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious 
ceremonies, etc.

      <I would say this constitutes "Official recognition of a union">


      2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a 
happy marriage.


    <implies #1>

      3. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a 
man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social 
festivities: to officiate at a marriage.

      <I would say this constitutes "Official recognition of a union">


      4. a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each 
other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial 
marriage; homosexual marriage.

      <In this case the term is used with a qualifier in a way that 
currently implies a lesser state bercause of the lack of legal status>


<Not applicable definitions skipped>


> The state simply found, quite late in the game, that it was convenient to 
> nanny state
> something that people have been doing since they were protozoa.

You're saying that the state believes that anyone that has sex is married? 
Don't think so.


Carl
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