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Möte BABYLON5, 17862 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 1380, 106 rader
Skriven 2006-06-02 21:27:00 av Robert E Starr JR (1826.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Atheists: America's m
=================================
* * * This message was from Josh Hill to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *
         * * * and has been forwarded to you by Lord Time * * *         
            -----------------------------------------------             

@MSGID: <hpf182l98bbbvg5dg4onnkl4ckvr5eih1v@4ax.com>
@REPLY: <4doo3mF1aipnpU1@individual.net>
On Mon, 29 May 2006 16:30:27 +0000 (UTC), "Carl"
<cengman7@hotmail.com> wrote:

>And yet those same forces consider themselves as giving a voice to their 
>constituents....and people give power to those forces to have a voice for
>their particular viewpoint.

Sometimes they actually do -- and sometimes their constituents are the
problem, as for example when a representative brings home the pork and
his constituents don't stop to think that everybody else's
representative is bringing home the pork as well and wasting /their/
money just as they're wasting everybody else's . . .

>> Usually when such an individual (or group of individuals [I am aware
>> of the oxymoron here]) is detected, the entrenched powerbases take
>> active steps to convert, remove or destroy them.
>
>It's not necessarily an individual...it's any opposing viewpoint.  Villify 
>the other side before their opinion is heard. Discredit them any way 
>possible.
>Come up with a sound bite that distorts their views and make them seem 
>extremist.

"Bite . . . their views . . . extremist." - Carl

Sorry, couldn't resist . . . :-)

(And I agree.)

>>
>>>Even that power structure will usually think they are doing
>>>something for the benefit of those people.  Everyone rationalizes their 
>>>own
>>>views.
>>
>> That's the PR view of powerbases: "We're doing it for you, honest".
>> The reality from within the oligarchies is somewhet different.
>
>I doubt any group sits back and say :What evil can we do today?"

Heh you haven't met me

Time to start putting those razor blades in those apples

>More likely 
>they consider that the end justifies the means and they
>consider their ends as for the greater good.

I think some people are just plain evil. But they do justify
themselves, often by convincing themselves that everybody else is even
worse . . .

>> Sadly, the Peter Principle holds as true today as it did when the book
>> was written, which is why we're in such a mess. They're powerful,
>> ambitious.... and incompetent.
>
>I think that's overly damning.  Ambition is not bad... a particularly 
>ambition may be, but the desire to accomplish something is not bad.  That 
>ambition may be to feed the hungry, cure cancer, find a new abundant, clean, 
>and renewable energy source. Clearly bad things have been done in the name 
>of most churches or faiths, but good has also been done in their name too. 
>Bads things have been done for money, but there have been new inventions and 
>ideas that came from the desire to feed oneself and one's family too. 
>Guttenberg comes to mind (I refer you to James Burke, who does the story 
>much better justice than I could).
>
>Power is not necessarily bad either.  We have the power to accomplish many 
>things.  Grow and preserve food for the masses....bring fresh water to 
>barren areas.  We have the power to coordinater relief efforts for people 
>suffering from catastropies around the world within hours (granted we don't 
>always do anywhere near a good enough job).  Power is another word for 
>ability.
>
>Incompetence exists everywhere.
>
>We could all come up with endless examples in which a person might do 
>something that seems evil until you understand all of the circumstances and 
>understand what the person is trying to do.  People are too willing to 
>accuse, villify and condemn others without considering the other person's 
>context and reasons.
>
>I don't think it's possible to get rid of the fences...but if we could get 
>people to stop being so absolute in their own views and consider that the 
>people on the other side of the fence think the fence protects them from you 
>too and may you stop and wonder why they feel the same need, perhaps it 
>would get people to think more and condemn less.

Amen to that. And the flip side of that would be a willingness to
question the motives and wisdom of their own side.

-- 
Josh

"I'm not going to play like I've been a person who's spent hours involved with
foreign policy.
I am who I am." - George W. Bush
                                                                               
                            
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