Text 1384, 125 rader
Skriven 2006-06-02 21:28:00 av Robert E Starr JR (1830.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Atheists: America's m
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"Josh Hill" <usereplyto@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:hpf182l98bbbvg5dg4onnkl4ckvr5eih1v@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 29 May 2006 16:30:27 +0000 (UTC), "Carl"
> <cengman7@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>And yet those same forces consider themselves as giving a voice to their
>>constituents....and people give power to those forces to have a voice for
>>their particular viewpoint.
>
> Sometimes they actually do -- and sometimes their constituents are the
> problem, as for example when a representative brings home the pork and
> his constituents don't stop to think that everybody else's
> representative is bringing home the pork as well and wasting /their/
> money just as they're wasting everybody else's . . .
>
>>> Usually when such an individual (or group of individuals [I am aware
>>> of the oxymoron here]) is detected, the entrenched powerbases take
>>> active steps to convert, remove or destroy them.
>>
>>It's not necessarily an individual...it's any opposing viewpoint.  Villify
>>the other side before their opinion is heard. Discredit them any way
>>possible.
>>Come up with a sound bite that distorts their views and make them seem
>>extremist.
>
> "Bite . . . their views . . . extremist." - Carl
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist . . . :-)
>
> (And I agree.)

Hey...if/when I find an extremist, I might use that. :)

>
>>>
>>>>Even that power structure will usually think they are doing
>>>>something for the benefit of those people.  Everyone rationalizes their
>>>>own
>>>>views.
>>>
>>> That's the PR view of powerbases: "We're doing it for you, honest".
>>> The reality from within the oligarchies is somewhet different.
>>
>>I doubt any group sits back and say :What evil can we do today?"
>
> Heh you haven't met me
>
> Time to start putting those razor blades in those apples

You consider yourself a group?  How many sets of voices do you hear?


>
>>More likely
>>they consider that the end justifies the means and they
>>consider their ends as for the greater good.
>
> I think some people are just plain evil. But they do justify
> themselves, often by convincing themselves that everybody else is even
> worse . . .

Perhaps...but I would only classify individuals as evil.

>
>>> Sadly, the Peter Principle holds as true today as it did when the book
>>> was written, which is why we're in such a mess. They're powerful,
>>> ambitious.... and incompetent.
>>
>>I think that's overly damning.  Ambition is not bad... a particularly
>>ambition may be, but the desire to accomplish something is not bad.  That
>>ambition may be to feed the hungry, cure cancer, find a new abundant, 
>>clean,
>>and renewable energy source. Clearly bad things have been done in the name
>>of most churches or faiths, but good has also been done in their name too.
>>Bads things have been done for money, but there have been new inventions 
>>and
>>ideas that came from the desire to feed oneself and one's family too.
>>Guttenberg comes to mind (I refer you to James Burke, who does the story
>>much better justice than I could).
>>
>>Power is not necessarily bad either.  We have the power to accomplish many
>>things.  Grow and preserve food for the masses....bring fresh water to
>>barren areas.  We have the power to coordinater relief efforts for people
>>suffering from catastropies around the world within hours (granted we 
>>don't
>>always do anywhere near a good enough job).  Power is another word for
>>ability.
>>
>>Incompetence exists everywhere.
>>
>>We could all come up with endless examples in which a person might do
>>something that seems evil until you understand all of the circumstances 
>>and
>>understand what the person is trying to do.  People are too willing to
>>accuse, villify and condemn others without considering the other person's
>>context and reasons.
>>
>>I don't think it's possible to get rid of the fences...but if we could get
>>people to stop being so absolute in their own views and consider that the
>>people on the other side of the fence think the fence protects them from 
>>you
>>too and may you stop and wonder why they feel the same need, perhaps it
>>would get people to think more and condemn less.
>
> Amen to that. And the flip side of that would be a willingness to
> question the motives and wisdom of their own side.
>

Absolutely!  Anyone that doesn't question their own beliefs regularly
should admit to being brainwashed.

Carl

Given a choice between two theories, take the one which is funnier.
    Blore's Razor
                                        
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