Text 15064, 206 rader
Skriven 2007-05-30 19:34:14 av Carl (1477.babylon5)
     Kommentar till en text av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Ärende: Re: OT: a proposal for increasing teachers' salaries
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lizardgirl wrote:
> lizardgirl" <gab...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
>
> news:1180110023.302250.122410@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 24, 6:54 pm, "Carl" <cengm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Not being difficult, I'm just curious...
>
>>> see how you are :^)
>
>> I meant to write "Not *trying* to be difficult..." :)
>
> either way I am content.
>
>>>> .......what official capacity does the CSO have?
>
>>> amend that to quasi-official.  its perception.  we go to a foreign
>>> land.  we dress nice, play nice, eat with forks,  use the potty all
>>> be ourselves, makes the rest of us look good.
>> So then it's okay to tax federally rather than at the state level
>> because a group dresses nice, eats with forks and can use the potty
>> by themselves?
>
> Sorry no, that particular leap in logic (cutting every tourist a check
> when they book thier ticket abroad) belongs to you.

Not really, but I am prone to pushing a point to an extreme to find out
where the other person draws the line. :)

<snip>

> What organizations like the CSO do when they travel is offer an
> opportunity to connect with others, enjoying time spent together in
> mutual appreciation of music.  The hope is that this mutual
> appreciation will extend to the musicians and the country they hale
> from.  Its global PR and I don't have a problem with the feds paying
> for part of it at that level.

Sure, but currently states can certainly fund some of this, some can be from
tax-deductable donations, and some can be from charging admission.
Just because they go overseas doesn't mean they have to be funded federally.

Cities often have "sister city" arrangements, which promotes the particular
city rather than as a national entity.

>
> (snipping examples)
>
>> Stopping with examples now :)
>
> oh, good.  I was getting hungry :^)

May I suggest that you enjoy (a responsible portion of) a bottle of
wine with your meal. :)

>
> None of these examples really gets to the heart of the matter.  i
> don't think it's enough to question why is my tax dollar spent on X.
> as big as the national expenditures fon 'pork' is, it's still a
> relatively small amount given the entire tax collected.

They were the easiest examples of garbage spending.  The point is,
once you accept the notion that it's fine to spend federal dollars on
everything, you'll get federal dollars spent on everything.

> better to ask, Why do we pay federal taxes?  What is the ultimate
> benefit of being part of a republic?  Or are we actually better off
> going it alone, as independent states?

You can't have a national defense at the state level.  You can't have an
air transportation system that's not coordinated between states.  There is
a need for a federal court system., etc.

> 'pork' is a political failing;
> Our particular form of government was crafted by people who believed
> government was, at best, a necessary evil.  They took great pains to
> ensure the 'weak' would have just as many rights/protections under the
> law as the 'strong.'

Yup, but their intent was an equality of opportunity, not of outcome.
Having som epeople make more money than others was fine with them.
These days it seems like some want to redefine government as an instrument
to equalize outcome.

You can either have equality of laws, which allows for inequality of 
outcome,
or you can have an inequality of laws, forcing an equality of outcome.

The former is significantly fairer and closer in line with the idea of 
liberty.
That latter is disaster.


> Lots of folks moan about gridlock on capital
> hill.  Gridlock doesn't bother me much.

I approve of gridlock. Which is why I'm predisposed to not voting
for any party to have all three brqanches of government... a position
I held prior to the latest elections, BTW.

> I think the framers erred on
> the side of caution (inaction) because they believed it was better to
> do nothing then to act inappropriately.  What gridlock shows me is
> that politics (not the need/desire to govern) is being checked.

Gridlock means only those things that both sides can agree on
get passed...rather than either sides' political agenda.

> What's missing in Washington is the voice of the people.

And since it's easier to throw the bums out at the state level, I prefer
more state control. :)

>
> <snip>
>
>>> i'm all for teaching kids how to think.  but once we've done
>>> that ...
>> At what point do you feel that's been accomplished?
>
> I don't know, but whatever benchmark we use should go hand in hand
> with accountability.  We don't have enough rituals in American
> culture.

We don't have an American culture... and with the whole idea of
a melting pot now seemingly politically correct, it will never happen.
We can't even *talk* about a national language without someone
screaming racism.

> There is no age of ascension really.  You can drive at 16,
> you can drop out of high school at 16, get married at 18 (younger with
> *parental* consent), also die for your country at 18, but you can't
> drink until your 21, you can also remain a 'dependent' on your parents
> insurance (if they have any) as a 'student' until 24 I think it is.
> To many mixed messages. When do we become adults, officially, in this
> country?

Well, I don't think you should be allowed to drop out of high school; I 
think
every citizen should be required to get their high school diploma.

As to driving at 16...with an almost 15 year old daughter,
I'm all for raising the driving age to 18. :)
If you're going to allow a soldier to die for their country at 18, you 
should
let them buy a beer.

>
>>> shouldn't we allow them to opt out of a standardized requirement
>>> they disagree with?
>
>> Let's take that a bit farther.  When I went to college, I went in
>> as a Chemical Engineering student.  Using your reasoning, why should
>> I have had to pay thousands of dollars on out of state tuition to
>> pay for the various liberal arts courses that were required when I
>> knew I wasn't Interested in them?  I'd already read a great deal of
>> Shakespeare.  I've been to museums around the world.  Why shouldn't
>> I have been able
>> to opt out?
>
> I think you should have been allowed to opt out.
> I think for kids who are going into college with a major in mind, a
> tailored, rather then a general, curriculum serves them better.

But that would have prevented college from charging me lots of additional
out of state tuition. :)

>> As to the "greater good," I reserve the right to challenge each item
>> for proof.
>> You could claim it is in the "Greater good" to take every penny Bill
>> Gates has and divide it equally among the people in Portland.  Then
>> you could say that his body should be strung up and beaten in order
>> to make those that hate him because he's wealthy feel better and
>> improve the "national psyche."
>
> And 'you'd' be wrong.  bill makes a lot of money on which he pays a
> lot of taxes; some of which will find it's way to the good people of
> Portland courtesy of their friendly neighborhood congressman.

But some absolutely resent that he's allowed to keep more than they have.
I don't.  Some say they hate him because of his "crappy" products or his
business practices.  That doesn't really work for me as an argument,
but to each their own.


> Personally I wouldn't string him up, I'd tie him down.

I didn't think we knew each other well enough to exchange that level
of personal information, but... you have my undivided attention if you
wish to continue. :)

> Not because I
> hate him for being wealthy, but because I think all men consequence
> should be bound at the feet of women who appreciate their unique
> talents. Builds character, keeps them honest.

Hmmm.  I think I'll decline from commenting on that mental image. :)

Carl

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force. Like fire,
it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
--George Washington
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