Text 15397, 110 rader
Skriven 2007-06-11 20:19:51 av Carl (1810.babylon5)
     Kommentar till en text av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Ärende: Re: OT: a proposal for increasing teachers' salaries
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"lizardgirl" <gabiks@comcast.net> wrote in message 
news:1181535139.668954.249140@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 9, 3:40 pm, "Carl" <cengm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "lizardgirl" <gab...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>> I have no problem helping people in need.  I have a problem someone
>> looks at two people and assumes that when one person has more
>> than the other that there is an inherent injustice that needs to be 
>> solved.
>> Wrong.
>
> correct, that would be wrong.
>
>> I think the vast majority are willing [the needy].
>> If that weren't the case, there would not be all of the charities, (both
>> private and religious).
>>
>> In my case the decisions that I've made have (so far) allowed me to
>> live my life without asking for anything special of anyone else.
>>
>> To whatever degree I can keep out of other people's business, shouldn't I
>> have a right to expect to keep others out of mine?
>>
>> If I were to ask for something special, then others *may* have the right 
>> to
>> ask for something in return for extra assistance.
>>
>
> ok, but i'm not sure i follow.  'charity' doesn't work that way.  you
> give to give not to get.  best i can offer is that government
> assistant is not charity.

I don't think it unreasonable that if the government is going to seize
assets to support someone else that we should be able to ask
that person to finish high school.... and possibly perform some sort
of community service on a continuing basis while they are receiving
assistance.


> since we are too enlightened to cull the
> bottom 8% or so of our population every now and again, if left
> unassisted the 'under class' let's call it, will become a growing
> liability.  public assistance programs mitigate, to a degree, against
> unbridled all american.......progress.

Hmmm...that paragraph makes me want to respond in about 8 different
ways...but I'll refrain from putting you through all that.

If we had social programs that were successful in pulling people
up,then as a society we could be more productive and devote
more money to other important things.  Unfortunately what we're
doing now isn't making society better, it *might* be just treading water.

Imagine what we could do for <pick your favorite causes...
the arts, health care, NASA,  cancer research, energy development
et., >...if we could actually significantly reduce spending on social
programs because the *need* diminished.

Most federal programs seem to have topped out in how effective
they are...and I don't know many people that are all that impressed
with the results.  Once it's a federal program (no matter which side
put it in place) it's there forever, and if you ever suggest any change,
someone will scream "But it's not a perfect change so you can't do that!"
(as if the current system were perfect).

Education is lacking...for a number of reasons, and Judge Russell Clarke
pretty much proved (over a 12 year period) that money and class size
are not the answers to our education system. 
(http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html)

I wish we'd spend substantially more on fraud detection and prosecution.
Most of our programs have huge amounts of fraud (estimates ranging up from
15-50% depending on the program).  This is not unique to the US. I 
understand
that the rates are similar in other countries.  Australia is known to keep 
the best
statistics on such things and their estimate reaches 50% for welfare fraud.

The whole "We're all in it together" mentality is an easy rationalization 
for
some to let others do the work for them.  Not everyone...not most, but far
far too many.  The mentality should be "I don't want to be a burden to
others," not "I'm entitled to some of yours."

To the degree that we can all be convinced to work for the common good,
that's great.  Freedom is lost whenever someone is compelled though.


Carl

"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when
the government's purposes are beneficent . . . the greatest dangers to
liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but
without understanding."
-- Justice Louis Brandeis
----------------------
"I'm older than many of you, and actually lived in a commune during the
hippie era. There is nothing like living in a commune to give you an
industrial-strength understanding of the limits of
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
Not all the leeches are invertebrates."
-- Anonymous
----------------------
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much
liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."
-- Thomas Jefferson
----------------------
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