Text 1589, 249 rader
Skriven 2006-06-03 17:08:00 av Robert E Starr JR (2035.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Atheists: America's m
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  * * * This message was from Carl to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *   
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"Josh Hill" <usereplyto@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:f3r382hhngpp9cbgii1em4l3g03ime4lgk@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 04:21:33 +0000 (UTC), "Carl" <cengman7@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John W. Kennedy" <jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote in message
>>news:yI7gg.3677$n91.1519@fe09.lga...
>>> Carl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah, Gates has been too busy giving $29 Billion to charities and 
>>>> trying
>>>> to bring medicines to third world countries.  I can see where you'd be
>>>> looking for a 666  birthmark. :)
>>>
>>> Bill Gates has, almost single-handedly, brought the entire software
>>> industry to a screeching halt. He has ruined the careers of thousands, 
>>> and
>>> he has done it by repeated criminal acts, and by a completely lack of
>>> personal and business ethics.
>>
>>Nonsense.
>>
>>He's made the careers of hundreds of thousands and made many people
>>millionares.  He's also invested heavily in communications and medical
>>technologies (among others).
>>
>>The entire software industry is not at a screeching halt;
>>
>>There are other (free) platforms if you don't like Windows, and the 
>>criminal
>>acts you refer to (I'm assuming you mean monopolistic practices) were 
>>mostly
>>criminal retroactively after MS got big.... the one unforgivable sin.
>
> I watched those things happening and they seemed plenty criminal at
> the time. It was a given that Gates would do anything, no matter how
> underhanded and odious and illegal, to put a competitor out of
> business

They never did find Phillipe Kahn's body, did they?

>  -- rewriting DOS to make his software incompatible

Contrasted to the other big players at the time that wanted to
control both hardware AND software.

> , imitating his innovative program and bundling it for free,

Apple "Stole" from Xerox, Konfabulator and others.

Do you think any software company says
"That's a really good idea.  Users like it, it's intuituve, let's NOT use it 
or try to learn anything from it!"

> forcing him into a fire sale,
Yeah, let's see.  Microsoft Money took the world by storm. MSN has taken 
over.
Not charging for IE made Netscape reduce their price from ... Free.

> writing licenses so that companies couldn't sell
> competitors' products, what have you.

>And he ruined the software
> industry and, by sticking us with cruddy, high TCO software,

As opposed to what?   If you wanted to lock yourself into a platform that
was closed and expensive (Apple) you always could. OS/2 PM sucked.

The other options were worse, and you might not like Windows, but it
works for 850 million people. A LOT of the bloat in Windows comes
from having to support apps going back to the early DOS days.

You try writing an OS that's backward compatable to the 80's and has
countless existing apps to keep running.  Do you have ANY idea what degree
of difficulty that really is?  That and trying to move forward too.

It's easy to take pot shots.  Let me know if you can write a better OS.


> has
> placed an immense tax on the businesses that are dependent on it.

But Josh...you LOVE high taxes, particularly on business.

Businesses didn't have to use it.  They could have chosen Apples or Unix.


> And, of course, the courts have ruled again and again that Microsoft
> violated the law. The man is a criminal, pure and simple.

No...the company commited criminal acts that became criminal after
a retroactive change in the rules because they became successful.

Bill Gates was not convicted of anything.  Please be precise here.

> As to those millions, they would have been employed if he'd lived --

Sure, but at one point 20% of MS employees were millionares.  I doubt that 
would have happened.

> people were writing operating systems and software long before Gates stole 
> their work.

Whoa.  Check this nonsense at the door.

IBM (a company with OS writing experience) approached Bill asking about an 
OS.  There weren't any 16 bit OSs for the 8088 Bill sent them the Kildall 
(of CP/M fame) with a high recommendation of Kildall's ability. Kildall (or 
Kildall's wife, depending on who tells the story) blew them off and refused 
to sign the non-disclosure agreements.

IBM went back to Bill, who saw the opportunity and bought the rights to the 
code (and distribution rights) from someone else
that was... here it comes.... porting (stealing?) CP/M to the Altair.  At 
this point the effort was a hobbyist effort....much like the rest of the 
"industry" at the time.

There really weren't any other options at the time.  So much for the absurd 
assertion that Bill stole the OS or that OS programmers were out there in 
droves.  That just wasn't the case.

> But they would have been part of a larger, more diverse, competitive group

Josh...that's just wrong.   From an IBM perspective, IBM made a serious 
mistake by allowing MS to release MS DOS as well as PC DOS, but they never 
considered that the PC would become anywhere near as popular as it did.  The 
whole project was done almost as a garage project within IBM.  The goal was 
to slap together something out of off the shelf parts that could connect to 
the mainframes.

The fact that Bill thought to release MS DOS as well allowed for the 
creation of the IBM compatable market, which lead to the rise of Compaq 
early on.   If that didn't happen, the market would have been fragmented 
between business users (IBM) and hobbyists and the whole market would have 
been a mess.

> -- more people producing more and better
> and more innovative and more useful products. Market competition as
> opposed to socialism.

What do you do for a living Josh?  It doesn't seem that you work in the 
industry, because there is a lot of innovation...more now than in a number 
of years.  A lot of people are doing a lot of interesting things and the 
nextr few years will be a lot of fun.  If you don't see that, then you 
aren't looking closely enough.


>
>>> Now he is trying to bribe God.
>>
>>A long time ago when he was just beginning to be noticed for his wealth he
>>said that he planned to give most of it away.
>>
>>You apparently don't know anything about his past or his family.
>
> Giving away wealth one doesn't need is a cheap trick to increase one's
> popularity while making no sacrifice whatsoever, promising to give it
> away while not doing so an even cheaper one.

Intetresting that you're so certain that you know what's in his mind and 
heart
that you feel qualified to judge him in absolute certainty of his intent.

Giving away 29 Billion dollars by setting up a foundation and being actively 
involved trying to bring medicine to the third world is soemthing that he 
wanted to do.  He didn't have increase his popularity; he's wealthy enough 
not to give a rat's behind as to what you think of him.  He's been 
interested in medical technology, and health related issues for decades. 
His father is well known for being very giving to charities as well.

Just because you say he does it as a popularity stunt doesn't make it so. 
Just because he's rich doesn't make him evil.

>
> What does hurt people is the money one spends: a 200 car garage could
> feed a lot of hungry people, and would be more than enough to damn
> someone in any Hell I'd care to live in.

You're as quick to damn others as some of the "neocons" are accused of.


He did employ the people that built the garage, and there are MS people that 
go there to work.  It's not just a private garage.  Apparently his house is 
used as a lab for developing and integrating new technologoes into the home, 
and there is a dedicated lab section away from his actual living area.

So far Gates has given away over 1/3 of his wealth and he has stated that he 
intends go give away almost all of it.  The fact that he wishes to keep a 
sizable amount of stock and a degree of controlling interest in MS for now 
is not confusing or damning.  He has said that he absolutely does not want 
to leave his kids with a huge amount of money; he wants them to accomplish 
something on their own.

Gates has done more to help people than most.  He's employed tens of 
thousands directly, many more than that indirectly and helped to direct an 
industry in a way that made it boom from the 80s through today.

You assume that you know his motives, but it's just your assumptions based 
on your own pre-conceived bias.


Let's contrast Gates charitable giving to say...Al Gore, whose 1997 return 
showed a whopping $353 dollars to charity.
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/04/15/gore.taxes/

Certainly he could afford more than that.  Gore, being the political animal 
that he is/was had more reason to give to charity for PR reasons that Gates 
ever did.  Other years he gave more...specifically earmarked from book 
sales, etc, but never tapping into his real wealth.   There is no reason to 
believe his habits have changed now, even though his worth has skyrocketed 
due to his Google stock.  He is reported to be worth more than 100 mmillion 
dollars.

















>
> -- 
> Josh
>
> "I'm not going to play like I've been a person who's spent hours involved 
> with foreign policy.
> I am who I am." - George W. Bush
>
                                                                               
   
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