Text 16027, 58 rader
Skriven 2007-07-15 18:23:00 av Doug Freyburger (2500.babylon5)
  Kommentar till text 16006 av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated (2479.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: obsolete thousand year-old shadow ships?
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"Vorlonagent" <nojts...@otfresno.com> wrote:
> "Doug Freyburger" <dfrey...@yahoo.com> wrote:
?
> > Yet how many Vorlons or Shadows died even then it was their
> > own ships in a fight?  None.  It wasn't *to their own deaths* they
> > were fighting to.  It's an important distinction that effects why
> > the answer was to tell them to leave and get Lorien to get them
> > to do so.
>
> You sure there were no Vorlons in that big Planet Killer when it got
> destroyed?  If so, what's your information source?  For that matter, what
> makes you sure that there's nobody in their cruisers?

Note that Vorlons are energy beings sans physical body.  There's
nothing to say they die if their ship gets blown up.  There's only the
statement when the first Kosh gets killed by the Shadows that he
was the first Vorlon to die in a very long time.  So am I certain none
died in ship battles?  No.  But can you be certain that some died in
ship battles just because the ships died?  No also.

> Do not assume that Vorlons and Shadows both fight entirely by proxy.  The
> Shadows probably do because we've been told that they use sentients in their
> ships for CPUs.  I have never seen any hint that the Vorlons do this.
>
> Hades, for that matter *Kosh* died, killed personally by three Shadows.

Which I mentioned.  Killed by Shadows while not in a ship.  And
the next Kosh killed by a bunch of troops preped on how to do it.

> That's one death in the name of rightness tight there.  What about the last
> Shadow War when the Vorlons were more active participants, along with other
> First Ones?

It's not certain that Vorlons or Shadows died, just that their ships
died.
Being energy beings it's very hard to say if one dies if its ship gets
killed.

As to the other First Ones, just how ambiguous is it that they fought
in the last war *as First Ones*?  As opposed to fighting as a younger
race that has since graduated?  Very hard to tell.

> This time around there was an unwritten agreement, or as Sheridan put it,
> "rules of engagement" specifically to NOT directly imperil each other's
> lives, but when Vorlon ships destroyed a Shadow task force in Interludes and
> Examinations, the Shadows were very quick to retaliate and kill Kosh even
> though no *shadows* had died.  The motive is there.  The willingness is
> there.  It just needs a little justification.  I have no doubt that plenty
> of Shadows died in the previous Shadow War, along with Vorlonas and other
> First Ones.
>
> So yes, very much willing to fight to the death over who was right.

Part of an escalation process.  It hints that none had died in the
previous
war.  Not certain but it adds up.
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