Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   17817/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   32953
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2061
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33903
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24128
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4408
FN_SYSOP   41679
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13599
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16070
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22093
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   926
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1121
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3221
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13273
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4288
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
Möte BABYLON5, 17862 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 17008, 73 rader
Skriven 2007-08-10 15:25:16 av Shabaz (3485.babylon5)
  Kommentar till text 16998 av rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated (3475.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: ATTN JMS: How did you come up with Lochley's story?
===============================================================
On Aug 10, 2:11 pm, Gregory Weston <u...@splook.com> wrote:
> In article <1186428953.545514.186...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> I've had trouble with the underlying question since it popped up in 'Is
> there any reasonable way to interpret "Over Here" without accpeting the
> existence of god, devil and divine miracles?'.
>
> Given all the things we've been asked to accept as possible over the
> years of Babylon 5 content, it seems only a small stretch to add into
> that universe an ancient race that is capable of hitching a ride in the
> brains of lesser, but still technological, creatures and occasionally
> exerting its will. You'd probably end up assuming that those beings are
> the origin of much human mythology without having to accept that they
> manifest true divinity. After that, the athiests and the theists are
> just arguing about terminology.

Yeah. If we take the definition of what supernatural is, it's that
which isn't part of the natural world. But over the years the B5
universe has told us at least some of the things the demon did were
possible in the natural world. To do a quick summation:

1) Inhabiting another person. We've seen the Vorlons do this on
multiple occasions, without it ever being implied that it is
supernatural in nature. Probably beyond the understanding of the
natural world of most of the non-First Ones, but not necessarily
outside of the natural world.

2) We see him overhearing Lochley and the Priest. This is very
explicitly possible and to some extent understood in the B5 universe;
it's telepathy. It's with physical barriers in between and without a
direct line of sight, so it would have to be a pretty strong telepath,
but the act of reading minds has been established. And Kosh managed to
get a telepathic link going with various people despite such barriers,
including Sheridan when Kosh was dying, so it's possible.

3) The big fire thing. Could've been a really powerful telepathically
induced vision, though it also showed up on station sensors and the
exterior shot implied it was visible from space. Which would mean the
vision would have to reach a lot of people. Could be a proper energy
discharge by an energy being, maybe.

4) The DNA-less blood. This would imply some really tight control on
the sub-cellular level,  but it still seems to fall in the natural
world. I could see some of the descriptions of Ironheart's abilities
implying that he could pull of such a feat, and some of the energy
beings like the Vorlons might be able to pull it off.

I think the biggest thing we need to remember is the source of most of
the religious context the story has. It was from a clearly
manipulative being exploiting the faith of two people. In some senses
his behavior being a mirror of those of the Vorlon, and their
exploiting of genuine faith by adopting religious personas.

If it is a proper Demon, servant of Lucifer, fallen angel of God, what
we saw was still a manifestation of it that doesn't necessarily force
you to accept the supernatural realm. It explicitly keeps open the
door for those that do accept the supernatural as real to put it in
that context, but B5's natural world seems to already incorporate
various things that make it so that this story isn't explainable only
by an appeal to the supernatural. And on the other hand, even if you
do completely place it in the natural world, the religious
interpretation doesn't become completely invalid either, it's indeed
then just a difference in terminology. It could be that it is an alien
entity, and that it also is a demon, which as a being from another
world with great powers fall under both definitions.

I'm actually curious if we'll see them again. Mostly because of that
one line about them remembering Lochley. Which with any other show
would seem like a throwaway line, but hey, this is Babylon 5.

-Shabaz
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
 * Origin: Time Warp of the Future BBS - Home of League 10 (1:14/400)