Text 2018, 137 rader
Skriven 2006-06-07 14:32:00 av Robert E Starr JR (2464.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: AATN JMS: Straczynski
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* * * This message was from Amy Guskin to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *
         * * * and has been forwarded to you by Lord Time * * *         
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@REPLY: <6bjg72pfmb4jthq6u2dopsrv74inbd76q9@4ax.com>
>> On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 03:09:42 -0400, Matt Ion wrote
(in article <JYuhg.251752$7a.155507@pd7tw1no>):

> Amy Guskin wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 15:18:43 -0400, Matt Ion wrote
>> 
>> (in article <zxkhg.247290$7a.80567@pd7tw1no>):
>> 
>> 
>>> Amy Guskin wrote:
>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 01:08:28 -0400, Matt Ion wrote
>>>> 
>>>> (in article <S38hg.246356$P01.164490@pd7tw3no>):
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> jmsatb5@aol.com wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dan Dassow wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Matt Ion wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Dan Dassow wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Other obvious Straczynskiisms include:
>>>>>>>>> Straczynskimania, Straczynskiology, Straczynskisized, 
>>>>>>>>> Straczynskimart,
>>>>>>>>> Straczynskiopia, Straczynskimedia, Straczynskifying, 
>>>>>>>>> Straczynskianium,
>>>>>>>>> Straczynskicon, Straczynskiicism, Straczynskimation, 
>>>>>>>>> Straczynskimetry,
>>>>>>>>> Straczynskiarianism and Straczynskicalifragilisticexpialidocious.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This entire conversation demonstrates clearly why it was a good idea to
>>>>>> just abbreviate my signature to just jms.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On the other hand, having been made merciless fun of by other kids when
>>>>>> I was young because of my name, there's something to be said for the
>>>>>> perfect vengeance that now so many people can spell it...in an
>>>>>> apparently infinite number of declensions.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, you know why Polacks spell their names with 'ski' on the end, 
>>>>> don't you?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Because they can't spell "toboggan"!
>>>>> 
>>>>> (This was a favorite joke of my Polish-descended algebra/physics 
>>>>> instructor in high school, BTW) <<
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Er...you do know that "Polack" is an offensive term, right?  
>>> 
>>> To you, maybe.  Not to my teacher. I'm quoting as told be a 
>>> Polack/Pole/Polish person... so sue me.
>>> 
>>>> "Poles" or "Polish people" - or even your own choice,
>>>> "Polish-descended" would be preferable.
>>> 
>>> I used "Polish-descended" because otherwise it would have sounded like 
>>> he was the instructor of a Polish language class.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I'm not saying "let's all be so politically correct that we can no longer 
>>>> tell ethnic jokes," because I have no problem with the joke itself; but I 
>>>> can't believe, Matt, that you'd come in here with a joke about black 
>>>> people 
>>>> and use the "n" word, which is what you just basically did.
>>> 
>>> Aaaaand...?
>>> 
>>> "I was a nigger for 23 years. I gave it up--no room for advancement." - 
>>> Richard Pryor. <<
>> 
>> 
>> Yeah...  Didn't we have that discussion here some months ago?  About how 
>> there are some terms that are used within a group with impunity, but are 
>> considered derogatory when used by outsiders?
> 
> It's not "being used by an outsider" when it's a direct quote of an 
> "insider", though, is it? <<

Yes, it is.  And you didn't use it as a direct quote, btw.  You told the joke 
- without quotes - and then offhandedly added that it was told by your 
teacher who was Polish.  Even if you'd mentioned that fact in advance of 
telling the joke, you'd be hard pressed to claim that it was a direct quote, 
unless of course you were to have expressed it like this:

I had a teacher of Polish descent, and he once said, "(insert joke here.)"

The way you told it, it just sounded like someone ignorantly using a racial 
slur that has long passed the bounds of acceptability.

>> I note that nobody gets in a snit over the use of assorted other words 
> that several people consider "offensive"... f***, s***, g**d***, etc. 
> So what is the real concern here, masquerading under the guise of "some 
> people find that term offensive"? <<

Words that describe certain bodily functions or excretions that some people 
find offensive aren't in the same camp as racial/ethnic slurs, which describe 
PEOPLE.  Why is no one in a snit?  Well, I can't really see getting up in 
arms because someone has offended bowel movements by referring to them as 
shit.  Bowel movements, the act of sexual intercourse, and female dogs don't 
have the capacity to feel insulted.

"God damn" is in its own little camp, along with using "Jesus Christ" as an 
exclamation, but again, you're not directly insulting a class of people by 
using it.  Generally, the objection to those are that you are taking the 
Lord's name in vain.  But again, not the same as a racial slur.

If you used "shit" in a room full of very decorous elderly ladies, they might 
look askance at you or be annoyed.  But if you used "kike" in a joke and 
there were Jewish people in the group you were telling it to, there would 
likely be some hurt feelings, some feelings of being insulted, and some 
feelings of residual panic (since racial slurs have been a prelude to 
genocide in the past).

Do you really not see the difference between using "fuck" and using "Polack"?

Amy
                                                                              
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