Text 2149, 119 rader
Skriven 2006-06-08 11:31:00 av Robert E Starr JR (2595.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Atheists: America's m
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* * * This message was from Josh Hill to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *
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@MSGID: <ns3g82tk93vg9gjrcp5f5i1h3oj2khqcsv@4ax.com>
@REPLY: <bq3t72ltritun0c9eeplnnkc6ppeg8kqjs@4ax.com>
On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 02:21:48 +0000 (UTC), "Dennis \(Icarus\)"
<ala_dir_diver@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"Josh Hill" <usereplyto@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:uh9e82da5226j271bvrdir9s9mu1005ov3@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 02:53:15 +0000 (UTC), "Dennis \(Icarus\)"
>> <ala_dir_diver@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Josh Hill" <usereplyto@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:fusb825frqjskbhv3f6m75dh82ncq1bnon@4ax.com...
>> >> On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 02:16:14 +0000 (UTC), "Dennis \(Icarus\)"
>> >> <ala_dir_diver@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >"Josh Hill" <usereplyto@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:3j69829cngfqnnnhgesc1tfjffd7cn372h@4ax.com...
>> >> >> On Sun, 4 Jun 2006 19:41:28 +0000 (UTC), "Dennis \(Icarus\)"
>> >> >> <ala_dir_diver@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Well, the environmentalists would be pleased
>> >> >> >a) no more oil out of the mid-east
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is bad? You like giving money to Osama, Saddam, and Iran?
>Sending
>> >> >> troops to take back Kuwait or protect the oil fields?
>> >> >
>> >> >So what would you have done to drive Saddam out of Kuwait?
>> >>
>> >> Would he have invaded Kuwait in the first place if it hadn't been for
>> >> the oil?
>> >
>> >Yeah, I think so. We get much oil from, say, Somalia?
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Afraid I don't follow you here. Saddam wanted to get his hands on
>
>Sorry - misinterpreted the "he".
>
>> Kuwaiti oil. Now he might have invaded had the Kuwaitis not had oil,
>
>May want to take a look at "causes" here
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War

Pretty much what I've read over the years, and kind of hard to
disambiguate given that Saddam's public and private justifications
tended to differ. Hence the "might have."

>> and it's even possible that the world would have done the right thing
>> and responded, though I wouldn't hold my breath. But then again, had
>
>I can see why - after all, there's Tibet. though I'd like to think that were
>that to happen today....

Nothing, I suspect -- I mean what could we do even if we wanted to?
We'd either end up in a nuclear conflagration or another limited war
against a nation of a billion half way around the world, with the
inevitable bloody stalemate . . .

>> it just been an impoverished stretch of sand, Saddam might not have
>> thought it worth his while. And we certainly wouldn't have sent troops
>> to Saudi Arabia to guard their oil fields -- a major beef of Osama's,
>> since it violated a tenet of Islam -- or been required to spend nearly
>> as much to maintain the military resources we still have in that area.
>
>Well, since he violates a few tenets of Islam, he doesn't really have much
>room to talk, I think

I'm not trying to justify him! Just pointing out that it was one of
his putative beefs.

>> Remember when Kissinger threatened war if the oil embargo threatened
>> the economic survival of the west? Our defense of oil shipments in the
>> Straits of Hormuz? How about our ultimately costly installation of the
>> Shah of Iran after his elected predecessor tried to nationalize the
>> oil fields? Would we have had to invade Iran a second time (well, OK,
>> "had' is too strong a word) had Saddam not been able to circumvent the
>> UN embargo by corrupting the oil for food program, or would he have
>> been overthrown?
>
>You mean Iraq? Well since he'd been in power for many, many years before the
>UN embargo....

But in those days, he'd been able to maintain a reasonable standard of
living.

>> For that matter, how would Saddam have built his army in the first
>> place if it hadn't been for oil revenue? Would he even have remained
>> in power if he hadn't been able to buy lunch for his people? Would
>> Iran have the money to develop nuclear weapons? Would it now be
>> sending aid to Hamas and funding terrorists? Would we have to send
>> military aid to Israel to counter those terrorists and oil-financed
>> weapons purchases?
>
>So its a good thing we stopped all that, isn't it?

>Anyway, so what would you have done to drive Saddam out of Kuwait?
>I mean, you don't seem to like the idea of sending troops.

I would have done exactly what we did. But the question isn't what I
would have done, it's whether Saddam would have invaded in the first
place.

-- 
Josh

"I'm not going to play like I've been a person who's spent hours involved with
foreign policy.
I am who I am." - George W. Bush
      
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