Text 2189, 105 rader
Skriven 2006-06-08 11:54:00 av Robert E Starr JR (2635.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Soylent Green (Re: At
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* * * This message was from Charlie Edmondson to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * *
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         * * * and has been forwarded to you by Lord Time * * *         
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Mox Fulder wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Jun 2006 20:38:04 +0000 (UTC), Charlie Edmondson
<edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:
> [...]
> 
>>Ah, Grasshopper, you finally begin to understand, even when you will not 
>>admit you understand!
> 
> 
> There you go again, confusing me with someone else.
> 
> 
>>It is not a question of population, or of over-population, it all a case 
>>of resource management.  So many have the false idea that "More people 
> 
> 
> Take a deep breath, and stay with me on this. The Earth is a physical 
> object. With me so far? The physical elements from which the Earth is 
> made, are not infinite. Still with me? The physical space and surface of 
> the Earth are not infinite, either. Those elements and resources cannot be 
> exploited indiscriminately, because they do not exist independently from 
> each other. If you exterminate a species, or cut down all trees, there 
> will be consequences beyond one missing species and no more wood. So, not 
> only is there a limit to the amount of physical resources, but also to 
> the rate they can be used. This is why the *number* of people is 
> significant.
> 
> 
>>bad." or even "Present number of people bad." when that isn't the 
>>problem.  What the problem is, how do we allow people to achieve the 
>>greatness within them?  How do we allow them to effective use the 
>>resources we have available?  That is a function of government and 
> 
> 
> That's all wonderful, but even the most benign government and the best 
> technology will have more trouble feeding one BILLION people than feeding 
> one million. So, if you are going to argue that politics and technology 
> are the only variables, and the number of people is irrelevant, you are 
> never going to convince me.
> 
> 
>>technology.  Once you have that, the more folks you have to use them, 
>>the more resources you can get.
> 
> 
> ...and the more people you have CONSUMING those resources.
> 
> 
>>If I have a single family, I can grow enough food for them.  That is all 
>>I have the resources to do.
> 
> 
>>Get a few families together, and I can have a couple of folks who make 
>>harness and equipment, maybe even furniture to make my growing food 
>>easier and home comfier...
> 
> 
> And while your pals are making that equipment, they are not gathering 
> resources to feed their own families, so they die from starvation. At 
> least, in this simplistic fantasy.
> 
> 
>>Then, you get a small hamlet, and I can get potters, glass blowers, a 
>>priest or two...
> 
> 
>>So, the more folks you have, the more resources you have available.
> 
> 
> No, sorry. In your example, the more *technology* you have, the more 
> people you can feed. If all those people in your imaginary town dedicated 
> themselves to feeding their own families, and not manufacture equipment, 
> you would simply have a lot more people, and you would not be better off.
> You are making a false argument by presuming that just by increasing the 
> population, you end up with a rich, more complex and productive society.
> 
> It's a little more complicated than that.
> 
Hi Mox,
I apologize.  I thought you had a little more of grasp on logic and 
economic than you have.  Sorry, but either: A.  You really don't 
understand how societies and economics work, or B. You are just being a 
troll, and arguing the ridiculous just for the joy of hearing yourself 
'speak'.

If you didn't understand that, when I get more folks around in town, so 
that when I have extra food I can feed that guy that builds harnesses 
and the blacksmith who makes and maintains my plow, so that I can grow 
even more food so that I can support the glass blower and potter, and 
carpenter, then I suggest you take a quick course or two.  Or just rent 
"Connections" and maybe that will expand your imagination enough to see 
the obvious.

Charlie
                                         
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