Text 3283, 88 rader
Skriven 2006-07-04 13:05:00 av Robert E Starr JR (3756.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Atheists: America's m
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"Paul Harper" <paul@harper.net> wrote in message 
news:i4ria2d62vgkde53ia37q7vn39ojefbts3@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 11:46:18 -0500, "Carl" <cengman7@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> Gay marriage (or legally restricting the same) is a matter of legal
>>> rights (or the taking away of those rights).  It has nothing to do with
>>> "the church".
>>
>>They aren't quite that separate. Marriage is also a religious concept...
>
> Also, but not exclusively. The legal rights and responsibilities that
> go with marriage are nothing to do with any church's attitude.
>
>>e.g. compared to  "living in sin." for instance and priests not being able
>>to marry because they are married to the church kind of thing.   For many
>>religious people, they usually get married in a church and often consider
>>the religious significance much greater than the legal one. For example,
>>consider the issue of a Catholic wanting an annulment rather than just a
>>divorce.
>
> Which is fine, and is their choice. That does not give them the right
> to stop other people living a relationship that *they* want, though.

We aren't tralking about preventing anyone from living the way they want, 
nor are we talking  about denying any legal rights.

I thought we were talking about using a term that has both a civil and 
religious connotation in a way that is troubling to people that place higher 
significance to the religious aspect of the word.

I supopse it could be split to say "Civil marriage" and "Religious marriage" 
and that might make a difference to some.

Would making such a distinction that way be acceptable to gays?  I don't 
know.


>>Also,  the idea of a "Civil union" was rejected by some of the most vocal 
>>in
>>the gay community...even though it would have given full legal status for
>>such a union.  I know several people in the community that would have been
>>fine with that though.
>
> We have the civil union kind of thing over here now, and I think that
> a lot of gay people have recognised that it is a first step towards
> full equality. Better to be half way there and heading in the right
> direction than nowhere at all. But then the church is (thankfully) a
> lot weaker over here than in the US, so to a great extent what they
> think is considered irrelevant.
>
>>As a result, the perception is that gays want the same status beyond the
>>legal sense... equating the union with the religious sense as well, which
>>upsets those whose faith does not accept that.
>>
>>It doesn't bother me personally, but I'm not about to tell others with 
>>their
>>own faith that their beliefs are wrong.  That's not my place.
>
> Which is great so long as the same rule applies back - they don't get
> to tell others that *they* are wrong either.

In this case they are asking that the existing definition of the
word...the one that they were married under...not be changed.

> I can't help but feel this whole area would be so much better if
> people just minded their *own* business a lot more and stopped
> interfering in the lives of other people. People who intend no harm,
> will do no harm, and just want to live happy lives of their own.
>
> It just seems so damn petty to me.

If I didn't have close friends that consider this important to them I would 
probably not think it was petty too.  It *is* important to them though, and 
they are very nice people.  If it is important to them (and many others), 
then I think it's worth discussing anyway rather than dismissing their 
views.
                                                                               
                 
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