Text 4149, 94 rader
Skriven 2006-07-18 10:45:00 av Robert E Starr JR (4622.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Atheists: America's m
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  * * * This message was from Carl to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *   
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"Amy Guskin" <aisling@fjordstone.com> wrote in message 
news:0001HW.C0E105D800DB7367F0284530@news.verizon.net...
>>> On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:31:23 -0400, Carl wrote
> (in article <46adnVgHwcbTUSfZnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@comcast.com>):
>
>>
>> "Carl Dershem" <dershem@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:Xns98026C2C77A5Fdershemcoxnet@70.169.32.36...
>>> "Carl" <cengman7@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:_LudnYkxqLvr8SfZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> <kruegerb76@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1153058207.756249.184380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> Carl wrote:
>>>>>> If there is no God, then there is no higher philosophy; all of the
>>>>>> "Whys" become personal and as such they are all subjective because
>>>>>> there are no absolutes to the question of "Why?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps not for you, personally, but what makes you assume others
>>>>> have this same limitation?   Of course there can be a higher
>>>>> philosophy without a "God".
>>>>>
>>>>> You seem to be saying the only objective (and non-personal) way to
>>>>> get an answer to all the "whys" is to believe in a god.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know how you'd define an absolute moral "good" or "evil"
>>>> without one.
>>>> I'm curious as to how you do it.
>>>
>>> Sounds like a load of Santorum to me, but ...
>>>
>>> For those of us who dislike absolutes, and do not believe in any
>>> superstition beyond Murphy's Law, it boils down to what some 
>>> philosophers
>>> refer to as "The Golden Rule".  Having a sense of empathy for your 
>>> fellow
>>> beings requires no supernatural oversight.
>>
>> A wonderful rule to live by,a nd one that I agree with 
>> whole-heartedly...but
>> not an absolute.  Is is possible to commit an act that may kill one 
>> person
>> but saves many others.  Is this a moral act?  Depends on whether you're 
>> the
>> one being killed or one of those saved... in short, it's subjective and 
>> not
>> absolute.
>>
>> The only thing I'm really trying to say is that "Good" and "Evil", 
>> "Moral"
>> and "Immoral" are subjective in the absence of an ultimate authority to
>> provide the absolute, singular, definition.  The only such authority I 
>> can
>> imagine is God.  That's not saying anyone has to believe in a God, just 
>> that
>> not believing means the terms "Evil" or "Bad" then reduce down to nothing
>> more than "I don't like it."  <<
>
> But...even among those who _do_ believe in a G(g)od/dess, there's dissent 
> as
> to who and which one, and what each one in particular says.  So with so 
> much
> dissension about the nature of G(g)od/dess, how can you call that an 
> ultimate
> authority?  Unless of course you mean the G(g)od/dess that _you_ happen to
> worship, which is what people usually mean in discussions like this.  No
> disrespect, but it's a big, wide world out there, with lots of beliefs 
> (and
> lack of them).  I don't think it's right to subject everyone else to the
> moral code of one particular hand-picked G(g)od/dess.

I'm not trying to subject anyone to anything.  I'm not saying that you 
should worship the way I do. I'm only saying that if there is a God 
(Christian or not)...then there is an authority to define absolute Good and 
Evil.  Any variations from an absolute on our part result from a faulty 
interpretation or will. In the case of Christians, we learn how far off we 
are after death. If I'm wrong I'll either find out the difference is even 
bigger  than I thought or I'll cease to exist and it won't matter.

I've never suggested I'm right any anyone else is wrong. I'm not that sure 
of my facts, and it's likely that anyone else is at least as right as I am. 
Still, I have to act on my own beliefs, just as I expect everyone else to.
             
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