Text 4189, 99 rader
Skriven 2006-07-18 11:19:00 av Robert E Starr JR (4662.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Atheists: America's m
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* * * This message was from Amy Guskin to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *
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@MSGID: <0001HW.C0E25EF10102E7CBF0407530@news.verizon.net>
@REPLY: <4omla295r32jn0s9fa1714rofoce6fm1a5@4ax.com>
>> On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:34:25 -0400, Carl wrote
(in article <ZvudnS0Ve7hZyyHZnZ2dnUVZ_uWdnZ2d@comcast.com>):

> 
> "Amy Guskin" <aisling@fjordstone.com> wrote in message 
> news:0001HW.C0E105D800DB7367F0284530@news.verizon.net...
>>>> On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:31:23 -0400, Carl wrote
>> (in article <46adnVgHwcbTUSfZnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@comcast.com>):
>> 
>>> 
>>> "Carl Dershem" <dershem@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns98026C2C77A5Fdershemcoxnet@70.169.32.36...
>>>> "Carl" <cengman7@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:_LudnYkxqLvr8SfZnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@comcast.com:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> <kruegerb76@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1153058207.756249.184380@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Carl wrote:
>>>>>>> If there is no God, then there is no higher philosophy; all of the
>>>>>>> "Whys" become personal and as such they are all subjective because
>>>>>>> there are no absolutes to the question of "Why?"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Perhaps not for you, personally, but what makes you assume others
>>>>>> have this same limitation?   Of course there can be a higher
>>>>>> philosophy without a "God".
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You seem to be saying the only objective (and non-personal) way to
>>>>>> get an answer to all the "whys" is to believe in a god.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't know how you'd define an absolute moral "good" or "evil"
>>>>> without one.
>>>>> I'm curious as to how you do it.
>>>> 
>>>> Sounds like a load of Santorum to me, but ...
>>>> 
>>>> For those of us who dislike absolutes, and do not believe in any
>>>> superstition beyond Murphy's Law, it boils down to what some 
>>>> philosophers
>>>> refer to as "The Golden Rule".  Having a sense of empathy for your 
>>>> fellow
>>>> beings requires no supernatural oversight.
>>> 
>>> A wonderful rule to live by,a nd one that I agree with 
>>> whole-heartedly...but
>>> not an absolute.  Is is possible to commit an act that may kill one 
>>> person
>>> but saves many others.  Is this a moral act?  Depends on whether you're 
>>> the
>>> one being killed or one of those saved... in short, it's subjective and 
>>> not
>>> absolute.
>>> 
>>> The only thing I'm really trying to say is that "Good" and "Evil", 
>>> "Moral"
>>> and "Immoral" are subjective in the absence of an ultimate authority to
>>> provide the absolute, singular, definition.  The only such authority I 
>>> can
>>> imagine is God.  That's not saying anyone has to believe in a God, just 
>>> that
>>> not believing means the terms "Evil" or "Bad" then reduce down to nothing
>>> more than "I don't like it."  <<
>> 
>> But...even among those who _do_ believe in a G(g)od/dess, there's dissent 
>> as
>> to who and which one, and what each one in particular says.  So with so 
>> much
>> dissension about the nature of G(g)od/dess, how can you call that an 
>> ultimate
>> authority?  Unless of course you mean the G(g)od/dess that _you_ happen to
>> worship, which is what people usually mean in discussions like this.  No
>> disrespect, but it's a big, wide world out there, with lots of beliefs 
>> (and
>> lack of them).  I don't think it's right to subject everyone else to the
>> moral code of one particular hand-picked G(g)od/dess.
> 
> I'm not trying to subject anyone to anything.  I'm not saying that you 
> should worship the way I do. I'm only saying that if there is a God 
> (Christian or not)...then there is an authority to define absolute Good and 
> Evil.  Any variations from an absolute on our part result from a faulty 
> interpretation or will. In the case of Christians, we learn how far off we 
> are after death. If I'm wrong I'll either find out the difference is even 
> bigger  than I thought or I'll cease to exist and it won't matter.<<

I think that's a limited view of G(g)od/dess; what if God isn't really 
interested in defining (or monitoring) ultimate Good and Evil?  God may have 
better things to do with his/her time...

Amy
                                                                              
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