Text 4921, 124 rader
Skriven 2006-07-26 22:00:00 av Robert E Starr JR (5418.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Why has this group no
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* * * This message was from Peter Schuller to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *
         * * * and has been forwarded to you by Lord Time * * *         
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@MSGID: <slrnecfilo.1onv.peter.schuller@hyperion.scode.org>
@REPLY: <1153557987.533672.233620@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
> Not as easy to navigate? Erm, eh? Someone earlier in the thread seemed 
> to think that threaded web-forums didn't exist... again, unless my idea 
> of a web forum is dramatically off-base, threaded forums are the norm. 
> Hierarchical conversations, new post alerts, etc. all make navigation a 
> breeze.

I do not think I have every in my life seen a threaded web based
forum. And by threaded I mean a proper tree view, not a list of
so-called "threads" which then contain a flat list of posts in said
thread.

And even if proper threading were supported, I am not about to poll a
50 websites per day, looking through 1000 threads per website,
scrolling around 50 posts on average looking for new stuff.

For example, I read my news in slrn, which presents a fully filtered
*tree* (threaded) view of the unread parts of conversations. Highly
efficient, and without it I would never have the stamina to even
partially follow high-volume newsgroups.

(Nothing about this is impossible to implement for the web; I am just
not aware of any piece of software that does it. And even if it did, I
would prefer my text-based interface above the clickety web stuff.)

Not to mention I can easily edit my ports in my favorite text editor
(which happens to be emacs) instead of a dumbed-down web browser
editing component (I wish all browsers supported external editors for
form fields).

> 1. Ease of use. A lot of people have said that web forums are clunky, 
> slow, and difficult to use. I can only theories that they don't go to 
> the same 20-or-so places I frequent on a daily basis. Modern web-forums 
> are slick and many of them offer a lot of customisability.

And all of them different. And none of them *as* customizable as one
wants. There mere act of even going to the front-page of 50 forums
takes more time than a quick perusal of new posts that I can do in my
MUA or news reader. (Again, RSS feeds are not an option because they
don't provide enough information.)

> 2. Uniformity. Formatting and posting styles tend to converge when 
> everyone uses the same UI. Quoted text and spoiler-obfuscating tools 
> only add to the appeal.

This is not a problem if everyone just used the conventional layout
that has worked forever and is extremely easy to read.

In fact, it is my experience that web forums are worse than
E-Mail/news because people tend to all mix various completely wonky
ways of quoting (ranging from forum software-supported tags to various
forms of inclusion of the quoted text with arbitrary special
colors/styles).

> 3. Moderation tools. A thread was 'verbally locked' only last week, but 
> people still kept right on posting. That wouldn't happen on a web forum 
> - once it's locked, it's locked.  Mods can also create stickies with 
> often-asked-for information (FAQs, news on JMS projects & cons, etc.) 
> which will always be front-and-center as long as needed.

Nothing will ever prevent people from posting what they want even if
the thread is locked. You could "lock" a thread in a mailinglist for
example by simply dis-allowing messages whose parent is contained in
that thread. But just as with web forums anyone can just start a new
thread quoting stuff from the old one.

As for stickers - that's just an example of lack of control. I don't
want to see all that stuff, I want an optimized view of the
forum. Static content such as FAQ:s should be contained on some web
page or sent regularly to the list/whatever, etc. I don't want to look
at 10 "sticky" threads every time I try to look for new posts in a
forum.

> 4. Powerful archiving and searching. Want to find all posts by a user? 
> Block all posts by a user? Find a thread you want to review? Bookmark 
> old threads as favourites? Find that JMS quote? I certainly can't do 
> most of that in Thunderbird, I have to go to Google; and being a web 
> front-end on a USENET archive, Google Groups IS slow and clunky.

I don't use thunderbird, but none of that is a problem in mutt or
kmail. Again - E-Mail allows the user to choose what to run.

Also, mailinglists often have very functinal archives for searching
(that may or may not be better than using Google Groups).

> 5. RSS integration. Effectively recreates the USENET 'feel' if you 
> really want it, and a rock-solid standard which you can subscribe to 
> from a whole bunch of applications.

Except the structure of the forum is such that the information
required does not *exist*. If for example the proper hierarchal thread
structure is abscent you cannot materialize that out of nothing. On
the other hand, a web interface that privided a front-end to a usenet
group or ML archive can provide the dumbed-down plain view seen in
most web forums. (Though if people insist on posting through that
interface the structure will be broken.)

> 6. Accessibility. I don't have to have a Thunderbird set up, configured, 
> and customised just the way I like it. The web forum retains my 
> preferences and they follow me around.

And I use the same client on my colocation machine that I can ssh
to. Or if I had none, I would ssh to my home machine. But granted,
this is a good thing if you're out in the bush on some restrictive
machine. But that's a special case, not the norm, and it is not reason
enough to give up everything else one gets with a non-web forum.

But again, you can easily use a web-interface to usenet/the ML (there
are plenty out there for IMAP mailboxes for one thing).

-- 
/ Peter Schuller, InfiDyne Technologies HB

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