Text 510, 83 rader
Skriven 2006-05-25 07:54:00 av Robert E Starr JR (956.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: Atheists: America's m
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@MSGID: <1148168662.075027.52820@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>
@REPLY: <kurtullman-A0F033.14281220052006@news.west.earthlink.net>
Kurt Ullman wrote:
> In article <1148090491.680017.305890@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>  kruegerb76@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Kurt Ullman wrote:
> > >
> > >   Of course they do. They believe that God doesn't exist. It is just as
> > > much of leap of faith as believing in god. Probably more so since if
> > > they ARE wrong they are looking at eternal damnation whereas if a
> > > Christian is wrong, he just dies and lays there.
> > >   I am a polyaetheist. There are a whole bunch of gods I don't believe
> > > in.
> >
> > Hmmm.  You seem to be making one huge leap in logic:  that not
> > believing in god would mean eternal damnation.
> >
> > I do think that's certain branches of Christianity who believe that,
> > isn't it?  And maybe Islam?
> >
> > But please let's not try to simplify things by saying "if an atheist is
> > wrong, he goes to hell".
> >
> > That's not how all of the world's religions see it.
>
>   But most have some kind of redemption for the Faithful. It might be
> reincarnation, or you chi surviving or something similar. Most have some
> sort of soul that doesn't just disappear if well maintained (although
> they may use different names, they all pretty much shake out to the same
> thing).

Okay, but supposing that a particular god, gods or some other
supernatural entity, entities or other spiritual framework exists, how
much relevance would belief in that framework have to the consequences
to one's soul after death? Surely any all-loving deity would be more
concerned with whether someone did good works during their life than
they would with whether they believed in that deity's existence. An
atheist who lives a good life could still have good consequences happen
to his/her soul after death, even if s/he went through life believing
that there probably isn't any afterlife since that person had never
come across any positive evidence for one.

For me, as a mortal human, there are many people in the world who don't
believe in my existence because they've never met me or heard of me.
They've never been exposed to any positive evidence of my existence. I
don't judge them negatively for this, and I judge whether they're good
people based on things like whether they are caring towards other
people, nonhuman animals, and the environment. I don't judge violent
criminals or corporate polluters as being less bad people if they
believe in my existence, either. Is there any reason why a god would or
should see things any differently?

>The aetheist thinks that there is nothing bad that
>can happen to him or her upon their death, it is
>as much a leap of faith (since it is unknowable)
>as a belief in a god or gods.

Yes, a positive belief in the non-existence of the afterlife is a leap
of faith. To my knowledge, there isn't sufficient publicly observable
evidence either for or against the existence of the afterlife. But
please note that not all atheists believe affirmatively in the
non-existence of the afterlife; "weak" atheism, for example, involves
taking the position of non-belief by default on the grounds that it
isn't up to the atheist to prove a negative.

I'm not an atheist, because I've had some non-replicable personal
experiences that give me enough reason to believe provisionally in a
spiritual framework that I feel comfortable doing so. However, in the
absence of such personal experiences I'd see agnosticism or weak
atheism as the most rational position to take. I also don't expect to
be judged one way or the other based on my epistemic beliefs; if
anything, any judgement after death would be based on whether my
actions in the physical world have good consequences. 

Matthew
                                                      
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