Text 8085, 133 rader
Skriven 2006-09-11 21:22:00 av Robert E Starr JR (8582.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: ABC backs down on 9/1
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* * * This message was from Amy Guskin to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *
         * * * and has been forwarded to you by Lord Time * * *         
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@MSGID: <0001HW.C129900B00485808F0284530@news.verizon.net>
@REPLY:
<C12752DC.EFC0%gabryant@fuse.net><0001HW.C1285444042A1BFEF0407530@news.verizon.net><7tudnfh8DPEidp_YnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@com

>>On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 23:17:15 -0400, Carl wrote
(in article <99WdndtpQOEiHp7YnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@comcast.com>):

> 
> "Amy Guskin" <aisling@fjordstone.com> wrote in message 
> news:0001HW.C128E6BD0020A9D1F0407530@news.verizon.net...
>>>> On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 21:01:57 -0400, Carl wrote
>>> 
>>> People are always more aware of when their side is on the receiving end. 
>>> <<
>> 
>> AAARRRGGHHH!!!! <tearing hair out>
>> 
>> No, Carl, it is _not_ always a partisan issue!!!  I wasn't HERE in 1991 or
>> 1995 when those films were new, so I didn't have a discussion here about
>> their lack of factual integrity.
> 
> Wow, you're much younger than I thought!!! ;)
> 
> Now that Grammar Dominatrix comment you made goes in an entirely different 
> direction.Oh oh..  ;)  <<

Hee.  Naughty, naughty Carl!  :-)

>>> I am here NOW, this is happening NOW, it's
>> addressing some extremely current events, and that's why it is of 
>> interest.
>> 
>> I'm sorry to get short, but I am very frustrated about this.  I suppose 
>> the
>> only way I can redeem myself in the eyes of some of you here is if I shout
>> myself hoarse about how wrong the Bush assassination film is -- which I'd
>> happily do, if someone here would disagree with me.  But apparently most
>> thinking people think it's an ill-advised piece of trash, so I probably 
>> won't
>> _have_ to argue.
> 
> Amy... you don't have to "redeem" yourself to me or anyone else.
> You know that.  I respect your opinions and I'm not judging you. <<

I hope you realize that I didn't mean I was actually wringing my hands over 
the thought of needing to redeem myself in the eyes of _anyone_; it was meant 
more tongue-in-cheek, that it seemed that the only way certain people here 
wouldn't think I was a flaming hypocrite was if I did something like that.

>>>> I'm also feeling a bit short-tempered about the implication from you that 
>> any
>> time anyone -- liberal, moderate, or conservative -- objects to something
>> that is even remotely political or politicized, it's because it bashes 
>> "their
>> guys."  I feel very strongly about this concept of objective truth, and 
>> the
>> implication that it's all about partisanship demeans the efforts
> 
> That's not what I said. I said that people are more aware (or sensitive)
> to such things when it's against their side.  People get defensive, dig
> in their heels, etc.  I wasn't singling you out for this in any way. <<

I wasn't basing my reaction on that single comment from you; this is a 
cumulative effect.  And, I wasn't taking offense on a purely personal basis 
-- this is something I see you attribute to practically _any_ political 
disagreements here.  That it's always a partisan game, and that apparently no 
one, arguing on either side, ever has a point where objective truth is 
concerned.  That's what it feels like in broad strokes, anyway.

>>> I've put in  to reading and analyzing and uncovering things on my own.
>> And the efforts made by a lot of other sincere and thinking people
>> on this newsgroup.
> 
> Yes you have.  In this case you've also said (or implied) that you don't 
> care about
> objective truth when it comes to Nixon, JFK, or Reagan, and that one could 
> infer
> from your comments that you care less if the subject is dead than if they 
> were alive. <<

No, I did _not_ say -- or imply -- that I don't care about objective truth 
when it comes to those other films.  I just said that they are less relevant 
at this point -- why don't we discuss how "The Great Dictator" distorted the 
facts about Hitler, while we're at it? -- and also that the farther back in 
time you go, the less _actual fact_ is at your disposal.  But whether it's 
9/11, JFK, Nixon, or the Peloponnesian Wars, if facts _are_ available, it's 
nothing but a disservice to the viewing audience to distort those facts.  
It's not that I care less -- it's that it is _more_ egregious a sin when 
there are people alive who can correct errors of fact, because in that case 
there is _no excuse_ to get it wrong.

Apropos of this discussion, someone pointed me to an interesting (if a bit 
overlong) LiveJournal entry today:

http://liz-marcs.livejournal.com/206303.html?view=3332831

This is an entry by Liz Marcs, a journalist who was in Boston on 9/11, but 
who nevertheless has some pointed things to say about why it's of paramount 
importance to get the facts right, particularly when so many people have been 
affected by an event.

>> It also seems to matter whether the show is on network TV or not.  That has
> nothing to do with objective truth either, so I'm, trying to find some basis 
> by which I
> can reconcile what seems to be (to me until I understand better) an 
> arbitrary
> set of distinctions that allow you to be outraged at this incident and not 
> others. <<

How about, because I can't be simultaneously equally outraged at all of the 
injustices ever perpetrated across time?  And that this one is happening 
_now_?  I don't know how many other ways to say this!  :-)

I just spent half the morning arguing with someone on another newsgroup about 
how it's not remotely the same situation as with DaVinci Code, where so many 
Christians were offended by the "lies" told therein.  I'm a bit punchy, as 
you might imagine.  :-)

>> If my comments are frustrating or disturbing you, I'm happy to switch the 
> subject. <<

Nope, you do what you're moved to do -- when I'm ready to throw in the towel, 
I'll let you know. <g>

Amy
                                                                               
                 
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