Text 1618, 152 rader
Skriven 2006-05-21 08:48:08 av Glen Jamieson
     Kommentar till en text av Dave Sacerdote
Ärende: KOSHER  60521
=====================
 -=> Quoting Dave Sacerdote to Glen Jamieson <=-

 DS> "Kosher birds include: capon, duck (domestic), goose (domestic), 
 DS> chicken, turkey, guinea fowl and many others. As a general 
 GJ> Ahem.  I thought the turkey as raised and eaten in the Americas
 GJ> post-dated the writing of Leviticus.  It is quite a different bird
 GJ> from the original pheasant-type known by that name, as was imported to
 GJ> Europe via Turkey.

 DS> True, however, Leviticus spells out only those fowl that are unclean.
 DS> Any not mentioned are allowed; therefore, turkey are kosher.
 DS> From The Jewish Publication Society's 1917 translation:

This is good stuff!  Very interesting.  Thanks.

 DS> "11:13 And these ye shall have in detestation among the 
 DS> fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are a detestable 
 DS> thing: the great vulture, and the bearded vulture, and 
 DS> the ospray;
 DS> 11:14 and the kite, and the falcon after its kinds;

That covers all the eagles.

 DS> 11:15 every raven after its kinds;

You don't want to "eat crow", anyway.

 DS> 11:16 and the ostrich, and the night-hawk, and the 

 DS> 11:18 and the horned owl, and the pelican, and the 
 DS> carrion-vulture;

Glad they protected the pelican; I like pelicans.

 DS> 11:19 and the stork, and the heron after its kinds, 
 DS> and the hoopoe, and the bat. "

The stork must be protected, otherwise there would be no more babies,
but the inclusion of the bat is an interesting one.
 
 DS> Leviticus outlines the non-kosher birds and the rest are all 
 DS> kosher. In practice, however, only the birds that Jews have 
 DS> a tradition of eating are actually eaten. "
 GJ> A relatively recent tradition?  (As above)  Ostriches and 
 GJ> emus are out I presume, as are assorted wild geese including 
 GJ> Canuk ones?

 DS> "Tradition" is a flexible term; however, turkeys are not on the
 DS> list of forbidden fowl and so may be eaten.  Ostriches are
 DS> specifically forbidden, so yes, they're out.  Emus I suspect would
 DS> be out as a related specie?  Wild geese are not on The List and
 DS> there is no reason to presume they would not be kosher.  After all,
 DS> domestic geese are allowed, why not wild?

From an inspection of the list, all those detestable birds are meat or
fish eaters, except the ostrich.  I wonder why the ostrich is on the
outer?   Probably emus and cassowaries would be lumped in with them,
although they are all vegetarians.
 
 DS> As for eggs, Jim is correct; eggs of kosher birds are kosher,
 DS> eggs from non-kosher birds are not.  Further, an unlaid egg
 DS> found within the body cavity of a slaughtered kosher bird may
 DS> be eaten, but only after going through the same process of blood
 DS> removal as the meat. (Such eggs are considered fleishig.)
 GJ> How do you remove blood from an egg?  (An immature one, as distinct
 GJ> from an over-mature one, eg balut).

 DS> Though I'm not completely familiar, I imagine it would be similar
 DS> to any standard koshering process where the egg would be placed in
 DS> salt water to draw the blood out.

You would be familiar with unlaid eggs, so you could advise if there
is ever actually any blood in an unlaid egg.  I don't recall any in
the unlaid eggs I have seen.  Re the balut, as there is a 3/4
developed duck inside, it could be considered as having blood, just.

 RH> Mixing meat and milk
 
 DS> Jim's political interpretation of the dietary law is a reasonable
 DS> assumption and may well be true, but I suggest that it came about
 DS> rather because milk was considered to carry life to the newborn
 DS> animal and therefore cooking a kid in its mother's milk was 
 DS> uncomfortably close to eating blood.

 DS> As I said, Jim's explanation is reasonable, but any conjecture we
 DS> will make must remain a conjecture, and "obvious" explanations 
 DS> are not always correct.  I keep an open mind.

So do I, but a lot of bits drop out of it.. Thanks for the above.

MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05
 
      Title: Fruit Bat Soup
 Categories: Soups/stews
      Yield: 4 Servings
 
      3    Fruit bats, well washed but
           -neither skinned nor
           -eviscerated,
           Water
      1 tb Finely sliced fresh ginger,
      1 lg Onion, quartered,
 
  I knew if we were patient, this would become available.  For all of
  you who have been waiting patiently to make your fruit bats into
  fruit bat soup, here's a recipe.
  
  The following is a genuine recipe from Micronesia.  Fruit bats, or
  flying foxes, are furry, fruit and nectar eating bats about the size
  of small rabbits.  The make very affectionate pets.
  
  Sea salt to taste, Chopped scallions, Soy sauce and/or coconut cream.
  
  1.  Place the bats in a large kettle and add water to cover, the
  ginger, onion, and salt.  Bring to the boil and cook for 40 minutes.
  Strain broth into a second kettle.
  
  2.  Take the bats, skin them and discard the skin.  Remove meat from
  the bones and return meat, and any of the viscera you fancy, to the
  broth. Heat.
  
  3.  Serve liberally sprinkled with scallions and further seasoned
  with soy sauce and/or coconut cream.
  
  Yield: 4 servings.
  
  (From "The New York Times Natural Foods Cookbook" by Jean Hewitt (c)
  1971,
  
  Quadrangle Books, Inc. NY.
  
  NOTE:  A final word about the Jean Hewitt cookbook.  It is now out of
  print so I don't feel too bad about swiping a recipe from it. Despite
  the above it is an excellent cookbook made up from recipes sent in by
  readers to the New York Times, and tested by Ms Hewitt herself. It
  comes from the days when "Natural Foods" did not just mean salt free
  veggie fare, (although there are plenty of first rate, mostly simple
  vegetarian recipes included). If you can get hold of a copy from a
  public library, say, I recommend it.
  
  Bill Venables, Dept. of Statistics, Univ. of Adelaide, South
  Australia.
  
  Posted by Ted Taylor. Courtesy of Fred Peters.
 
MMMMM
 

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 * Origin: Braintap BBS Adelaide Australia (3:800/449)