Text 7236, 158 rader
Skriven 2006-11-03 21:09:43 av Sean Dennis (1:18/200.0)
   Kommentar till text 7233 av Ian Hoare (1:275/311)
Ärende: Behind!
===============
Ian Hoare wrote in a message to Sean Dennis:

 IH> When you have a really good program design that we all can either
 IH> live with or better, THEN we can start coding the modules. For
 IH> example, you say that printer support will be minimal and usb
 IH> support non existent. Why? Windows should handle that, like it
 IH> should be able to handle screen drivers. You need to decide what
 IH> flavour of windows this will work under, 3.1? 95? 98? NT? 2000?
 IH> Millenium? XP or Vista? 

I will be writing this using Virtual Pascal.  I will be using the most
platform-independant code that I have to do both without a lot of work.  This
will run under Windows 95 and up as a native 32-bit program, not a 16-bit
program.  Yes, this should even work under Vista if they haven't completely
killed off the command shell (CMD.EXE).  You must remember something: I am
developing this on an OS/2 platform (I do not run Windows myself).  Windows'
CLI interface is good at best and problematic at worst.  If I was going to make
a full-blown GUI program, it wouldn't be free, trust me.

This program I am planning on is not going to be chock full of features.  It
will have a few good ones that it does well and that's that.  I am an amateur
programmer working on this part time.  I write BBS doors and sysop utilities
(see http://outpostbbs.net/cheepware.html).  They're free and I don't ever plan
on writing something so complicated that I'd have to require compensation.

 IH> Also, you'll need to see how Scott reacts, he MAY just want to
 IH> clamber on board, which - if true - would be great. 

The problem I have is this: I hate working with other people's code.  It's also
quite problematic especially when it isn't commented well enough (such as using
lousy variable selections, et al).  I may just write my own from scratch and
figure out how MM stores its indices from there.

 IH> Do you know Eudora or Agent? If not, please do go and get them, to
 IH> see how the configs work. You can set most options via menus, but
 IH> they are saved in xxx.ini files which can be edited. 

Yes, I know what they are.  I used to run Maximus BBS software and I still run
BinkleyTerm and Squish, which are all text-based configurations.  In fact a
/LOT/ of my BBS system is text-based configuration (let's see: BT, Squish, NEF,
timEd, twitfilt, Infomail - all use text-based CFGs).

 IH> Do you see this as being a program that runs as a dos style prog in
 IH> a dos style window under windows, or a genuinely windows native
 IH> program? If the latter, then remember the windows standard
 IH> commands. CTRL O to open a file CTRL S to save one, F4 to close a
 IH> window ALT-F4 to close down the program. 

This program will run as a CLI-mode program.  This will not have a text-based
GUI, even though I do have Vision! (a non-OOP GUI kit for Borland/Virtual
Pascal).  This won't have any "windows"; I am thinking of running it all within
a single window.  If it's said that people want a text-based GUI, you're
looking at about a six to eight month learning curve for me to get everything
how I want it.  I have played with Vision! a bit, but not enough to really get
under the hood.  Also, a GUI will double the overhead and size of the program.

 IH> I have a REAL horror of using function keys to do things. OK,
 IH> Windows has some standard command, but in general I find them
 IH> positively user hostile. Make sure all the sections "look and feel"
 IH> as much the same as possible, so that the program is as intuitive
 IH> as possible. 

F1 is a standard key for help, as is ESC to exit the program.  Remember that I
normally work with CLI/VIO mode programs and do not use "Windows" standard
keys.  Please remember that "Windows" standard keys are actually decendents of
WordStar key layouts, so if I had to, I can fire up my copy of WordStar 3.3 for
it.

 IH> I take the point that Dale makes about some of MM's capabilities
 IH> being hard to find and perhaps not too obvious to reach. We'd need
 IH> to address that. 

Again, I am not going to load this thing with bells and whistles.  If people
want that, I'll simply release the source and let them do their own thing. :) 
I will impliment Jim's idea of a "subsearch" (search within results).  I
haven't done it before, but I know that I have enough code from SWAG and other
places that I could learn how to do it directly.  MM, to me, is feature-laden
to a fault and I need to narrow down exactly what I want to do.

 IH> I'd see a menu across the top (pull down menus are so much part of
 IH> windows, that I don't think you can omit them) it/they could be
 IH> context sensitive as in NYC, or fixed. Maybe icons instead of words
 IH> - again that's the "wimp" environment. However I see no reason why
 IH> there shouldn't be keyboard shortcuts, either following MM
 IH> standards, Dos standards or Windows norms. Hovering the mouse over
 IH> the icon should produce a bubble with the command or commands. Many
 IH> windows progs have a text menu line with icons beneath. It could be
 IH> useful if these were user choosable. See Agent for how that works. 

This will be a strictly text-based program.  No icons, no pretty pictures, et
al.  I can do a lot more with key combinations than I can anything else. 
However, as per your fear (!) of function keys, I can assign different
keystrokes to the same thing.  What you're asking for me to do in the above is
a very serious time investment and again, for what I would have to learn and
the time to spend on it, I would have to be compensated.  I don't want to do
that at this point in time.  Perhaps a year or two down the road when the basic
program is relatively bug-free, I will be in a better job at that time and can
sit down and learn at my own pace concerning GUI stuff.  However, if you start
doing GUI stuff, you immediately cut out the DOS, Linux and OS/2 users, which
is something I don't want to do.

I am more interested in having a good working program than one that's full of
pretty pictures.  I don't mind building an inline help program - in fact,
that's actually not very difficult to do (and if you want to know how I'd do
it, just ask).

 IH> So, to repeat. Start by deciding the essential. What's the basic
 IH> database structure? Once that's chosen, then decide about techy
 IH> stuff like units. How bright are the conversions going to be? Is
 IH> there any reason why 1/4 c chopped onion shouldn't convert to
 IH> something really sensible like 30 gms rather than the utterly
 IH> useless 4 tbs. (metric systems of food measure use weight for solid
 IH> foods - and there's no reason why there couldn't be some kind of
 IH> look-up table for conversions). Will you cycle through conversions
 IH> as MM does or do a global one like NYC? Will you allow for both
 IH> fractions and decimals? What sort of internal conversions will you
 IH> automatise? So if you have a recipe that calls for 1 teaspoonful of
 IH> flour, will multiplying it by 3 convert to 1 tablespoon? It should.

The database structure will be similar to MM's, however, mine will be extended.
 Basically, you will have my program's format and MM's.  Now to your points:

  - Conversions: I know all about going from "English" to metric as I am
becoming a Certified Pharmacy Technician (CPhT).  It's very important that I
know that 1 gr=1 cc=1 mL. ;)  I mean, I can also toss in that 60mg = 1 grain
too. <G>  I could simply go by on what's written into the measurement field
(literally by seeing if "1/4" is in there and telling the program that is equal
to whatever).

 - Cycling: Not sure by what you mean.

 - Doubling/tripling: I'd have to write the math logic into it to do so.  It'd
take time but I can do it.

Right now, my goal is to get a basic program that will do the following:

- Add recipes to the database
- Search for and successfully find requested recipies (via catagories, field
searches)
- Print recipes (USB is NOT supported in any command-line printer module I've
ever seen)
- Import and export recipes to the standard MM format

I will email Scott and ask for his database format if he wishes to share it. 
If not, then I'll have to hunt around and try to find the routines myself.

This will be more of a utilitarian program.  Remember, this is on my own time
and I'm doing it as a learning experience.  It will be a good, basic (with a
few goodies) MM-esque program.  The fancier it gets, the more time I have to
spend and therefore that's why all of the fancy programs are not free.

Later,
Sean

// sean@outpostbbs.net | Blog: http://meseems.wordpress.com | ICQ: 19965647

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