Text 10082, 144 rader
Skriven 2008-07-03 15:16:30 av Ruth Haffly (1:396/45.28)
   Kommentar till text 9985 av JOAN MACDIARMID (1:123/140)
Ärende: Splenda and Bread
=========================
Hi Joan,

 JM>  I would try making bread the usual way, but leave
 JM>  out the sugar completely. You might want to cut

 RH> I'd cut the sugar by maybe half but not cut it out entirely.

 JM>  Both ways are worth trying, though no sugar in a breadmaker
 JM>  might be a problem, because the automatics might not allow
 JM>  for the increased rising time. I suggested that partly

And the sugar is needed to feed the yeaties.  My bread machine book says
that some rising times may vary, depending on ingredients, temperatures,
etc but it is nothing like home baking where you control the process
more so.

 JM>  because Sean mentioned his Splenda experiment had worked OK
 JM>  except the bread was too sweet. So effectively, he did make
 JM>  his bread with no sugar. I remember describing my breadmaking
 JM>  to a couple of old Italian brothers and they were horrified
 JM>  I added any sugar, claiming "Momma" never used any making her
 JM>  Italian bread. I don't think they understood a little sugar
 JM>  in a yeast bread doesn't sweeten the bread because it is
 JM>  consumed during the rise.

But, IIRC, true Italian and French breads do not have sugar of any sort
at all.


 JM>  Not sure why Sean was doing the Splenda experiment at all;
 JM>  maybe he thought by not adding sugar he would get a
 JM>  diabetic-safe bread, but of course the carbohydrates in
 JM>  bread would still be the main problem.

I think he was hoping it would be better for his diabetes. But, he
didn't factor in that bread is mainly carbs which are the biggest
problem area.

 JM>  But I could see using molasses for color, especially
 JM>  a dark molasses, because it could be used in place
 JM>  of the sugar, and the yeasts would metabolize most

 RH> Molasses is a sugar--not as sweet as white because it's not as refined
 RH> to remove impurities as white is.

 JM>  Well, molasses contains sugar, and is certainly a cane
 JM>  product, but is distinct from sugar as we mention it
 JM>  in a recipe, where a solid granular form is presumed
 JM>  unless otherwise specified. And the significant feature
 JM>  of the molasses isn't the sugar but the distinctive
 JM>  flavor and color of the concentrated "impurities".

 RH> There's a difference between regular rye and pumpernickel rye.
 Both RH> use rye flour but the regular rye uses caraway seeds and is,
 as a RH> general rule, lighter in color & usually a little chewier than
 RH> pumpernickel. Pumpernickel has no caraway seeds and has both cocoa
 and RH> coffee in it, as well as molasses.


 JM>  OK, I didn't remember if you guys specified pumpernickel
 JM>  or just said "rye" and the editing had removed that detail
 JM>  by the time I felt moved to comment. But if the question

The original question did refer to pumpernickel bread. Jim Weller
further clarified some of the differences in it and "regular" rye.

 JM>  had only asked about the color of rye bread, molasses would
 JM>  have been ONE of the correct answers. (Regular rye doesn't
 JM>  HAVE to have caraway, either, but I like it that way.)

The molasses would not have been enough of a factor to affect the color
of the bread. Coffee and cocoa powder are stronger coloring agents,
traditionally used to give the color to pumpernickel.


 JM>       Title: OLD MILWAUKEE RYE

 JM> MMMMM---------------------------BREAD--------------------------------
 JM>       1 pk Active dry yeast
 JM>       1 c  Warm water
 JM>     1/4 c  Molasses

 RH> That's pretty much the standard amount of sweetener for the yield. It
 RH> may look a bit darker if you are using white flour with the rye and

 JM>  Darker than what? White bread? Using white flour for part
 JM>  of the rye flour in this wouldn't be darker than all-rye.

Darkerthan the standard white bread made with white flour. Rye flour is
sort of a grey-ish white so it would add some color but not the dark
color of pumpernickel bread.

 RH> molasses but it isn't nearly as dark as pumpernickel. Honey or sugar
 RH> could be subbed without any real change in taste, and ,again, if white

 JM>  I have a feeling the molasses would lend a bit more
 JM>  complexity in flavor than plain sugar or honey.

Somewhat so, yes. But both of those breads (pumpernickel and rye) have a
nice complexity of flavors anyway.  I've seen, but not tried, recipes
using onions in several bread of those types.  Sounds good.


 RH> flour is used, the finished loaf would be slightly darker than
 RH> "normal" whete bread. This is what I would categorise as "regular" rye
 RH> (sometimes labeled as Jewish rye) as it has the caraway seeds and no
 RH> coffee or cocoa.

 JM>  Yup, that's what I want.

 JM>  but apparently does develop rather slowly. And the
 JM>  recipe uses a fair amount of molasses, but I bet the
 JM>  resulting bread isn't noticeably sweet. I need some
 JM>  rye flour!

 RH> No regular bread, be it whole wheat, rye, white, pumpernickel ,etc
 RH> should be sweet.  OTOH, quick breads are sweet; the difference in
 RH> taste is noticeable.

 JM>  Maybe quick breads were invented partly to allow sweet
 JM>  breads, because yeast bread would be hard to do sweet.
 JM>  Raisin bread is sort of sweet, but I think that's because
 JM>  the raisins, cinnamon and a bit of brown sugar(?) are
 JM>  sprinkled on the dough just before it is rolled into a
 JM>  loaf for a final quick rise, and baked before the yeasts
 JM>  can get the sugar.

Quick breads are so named because of the use of baking powder & soda as
leavening. They are quicker acting than yeast but I've seen "regular"
bread recipes using them (think Irish soda bread) and some bread machine
recipes that use yeast in "quick bread" recipes. One of the interesting
things about bread is the many forms and flavors it can take; you could
probably make a different bread every week for the rest of your life.

---
Catch you later,
Ruth
rchaffly@earthlink.net  FIDO 1:396/45.28


... Matthew 6:11 | Give us this day our daily bread.

--- PPoint 3.01
 * Origin: Sew! That's My Point (1:396/45.28)