Text 24203, 141 rader
Skriven 2009-05-19 10:16:00 av Glen Jamieson
     Kommentar till en text av Hap Newsom
Ärende: SMART SUBS  90519
=========================
 -=> Quoting Hap Newsom to Glen Jamieson <=-

Greetings Hap,

 -> Thanks for bringing the voice of experience into this discussion.
 -> 
 ->  HN> Key word is "undetected"...they can (a) gather
 ->  HN> intelligence data from foreign shores,(b) insert
 ->  HN> operational teams ashore, (c) track enemy sea
 ->  HN> maneuvers, (d) destroy enemy surface vessels,
 ->  HN> (e) protect friendly vessels and shipping lanes,
 ->  HN> (f)launch conventional warheaded cruise missles

 -> (a) is a good one, although much of that intelligence is now provided
 -> by satellites.  Re (b), not being a particularly belligerent nation,
 -> Australia is not likely to insert operatives into another country, but
 -> the submarines could be useful to unobtrusively pick up operatives or
 -> high profile refugees from other countries.  (That was something I
 -> hadn't thought of.)  These days satellites can do (c) quite
 -> effectively.  The submarines can certainly do (d), but fortunately we
 -> don't seem to have any enemies with ships at present.
 -> 
 -> At present the main friendly vessels needing protection (e) are in the
 -> Strait of Malacca and the Indian Ocean which are subject to piratical
 -> attacks. I don't know how fast our new submarines are, but if they
 -> could out-run the pirates' speedboats and have the range they could be
 -> quite useful there. Naturally I don't know what weaponry our new subs
 -> are likely to be equipped with, but medium range cruise missiles would
 -> be a logical addition to expensive torpedoes.  A small cannon to fire
 -> at the pirates would be useful.
 -> 
 HN> There is a lot of data that a sattelite can not
 HN> gather. And I've seen Aussie's in action and
 HN> they can hold their own with belligerence! And

Only when roused!  (G)  We don't have any empire building ambitions.

 HN> you never know who's tomorrow's enemies might
 HN> be. Since most of Australia's imports and exports
 HN> go via the Sea, being able to defend shipping
 HN> lanes and ensure continuity of commerce is a 
 HN> strong selling point.  A sub does not need to
 HN> be able to outrun or catch a Pirate's speedboat.
 HN> they can (a) simply track them to a "destination",

That is an interesting possibility, if the snorkling sub quietly
followed a would-be pirate boat until it turned into a real one, then
suddenly surfaced nearby, with a weapon pointed at the pirates.

 HN> (b) "shadow" ships and wait for the pirates to 
 HN> come to them, or (c) lie offshore at known 
 HN> pirate "bases" and whack em when they come
 HN> out. Torpedoes are not too expensive and are
 HN> quite effective. I don't see deck guns on 
 HN> subs as a big factor, but a couple of good
 HN> sized automatic rifles carried topside and 
 HN> mounted in exisitng mounts can do a lot. 

When being shown over an Oberon class sub in Fremantle recently I was
told that the torpedoes cost some hundreds of thousands of $$$ each.
Pirates are becoming quite a problem in some parts of the world, and
they are getting better armed.  I think one of the difficult aspects
to dealing with them is that they don't hoist the Jolly Rodger any
more to identify themselves.  They remain peaceful navigators of the
high seas right up to the point where they point guns at, or board
ships.  Submarines could locate and shadow pirate "mother ships" and
warn other naval vessels.   As pirates now use high powered rifles and
RPGs, a small cannon mounted on a sub would enable the sub to remain
out of range of the RPGs while firing at the pirates.

As I typed that, I heard a news item about 2 Australian frigates which
were on training exercises in the Gulf of Aden when they responded to
an emergency call to rescue a ship under fire from pirates.  The
success of that operation may well result in Australia stationing
naval ships there permanently, as that Gulf is the main route for
Australian exports to Europe.
 
 -> I still think that the main purpose of our government's announcement
 -> that 12 submarines would be built here was political, intended to
 -> prepare voters for the next election - but then I am rather cynical
 -> about governments and their promises.
 ->
 HN> There is that as well.
 HN> All in all, I like submarines
 HN> and think they will play a 
 HN> big role in the future of naval
 HN> warfare. 

I like the idea of submarines, and think they have uses in the future,
but probably in new fields.  One point that you haven't mentioned is
the proven ability of a sub to travel beneath the Arctic ice floes to
reach otherwise inaccessible areas.  I remember reading of a Russian
sub planting a flag at the North Pole.  Now if a substantial oil field
was found there, that could be worth fighting over.

The main development in modern subs is the quest for silence of
operation, with peculiarly shaped propellors being used.  In my
younger days I worked on the design and development of a directional
sensing, air launched sono-buoy.  (I was your "enemy"!)  Two of those
dropped into the sea from an Orion could track a submarine (or surface
craft at night) for 30 miles or so - but only if it made a noise.  The
Magnetic Anomaly Detector in the "sting" on the tail of the Orion will
only work if the plane is flying directly over the submerged boat.

MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05
 
      Title: Frozen Margaritas
 Categories: Booze, Cocktails, Classic
      Yield: 5 Servings
 
      6 oz Can frozen limeade
           - concentrate
      6 oz Tequila
      2 oz Triple sec
      6 oz Lemon-lime soda
      5 c  Crushed ice
           Lime slices
           Margarita salt
 
  Pour limeade concentrate, tequila, triple sec and soda into large
  plastic container, and stir to mix. Fill blender with 5 cups crushed
  ice. Add limeade mixture to ice in blender and blend until slushy.
  Pour into salt-rimmed Margarita glasses. Garnish with lime slices.
  
  Makes about 6 margaritas, depending upon the size of your glass.
  Note: Squeeze half a lime into a small dish with a flat bottom. Dip
  each glass into the lime juice and then into the margarita salt.
  
  FROM: Texas Cooking Online's Weekly E-mail
  MM Format by Dave Drum; 16 May 2008
  Uncle Dirty Dave's Archives
  
  From: Dave Drum                       Date: 09-01-08
 
MMMMM
 

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]

--- FLAME v2.0/b
 * Origin: Braintap BBS Adelaide Australia (3:800/449)