Text 24290, 190 rader
Skriven 2009-05-22 12:20:58 av hap newsom (1:124/311)
Kommentar till en text av Glen Jamieson
Ärende: RE: SMART SUBS 90521
=============================
G'day Glen!
->
-> -> -> HN> Key word is "undetected"...they can (a) gather
-> -> -> HN> intelligence data from foreign shores,(b) insert
-> -> -> HN> operational teams ashore, (c) track enemy sea
-> -> -> HN> maneuvers, (d) destroy enemy surface vessels,
-> -> -> HN> (e) protect friendly vessels and shipping lanes,
-> -> -> HN> (f)launch conventional warheaded cruise missles
-> ->
-> -> -> At present the main friendly vessels needing protection (e) are in
the
-> -> -> Strait of Malacca and the Indian Ocean which are subject to
piratical
-> -> -> attacks. I don't know how fast our new submarines are, but if they
-> -> -> could out-run the pirates' speedboats and have the range they
could
-> -> -> quite useful there. Naturally I don't know what weaponry our new
subs
-> -> -> are likely to be equipped with, but medium range cruise missiles
would
-> -> -> be a logical addition to expensive torpedoes. A small cannon to
fire
-> -> -> at the pirates would be useful.
-> -> ->
-> -> HN> There is a lot of data that a sattelite can not
-> -> HN> gather. And I've seen Aussie's in action and
-> -> HN> they can hold their own with belligerence! And
-> ->
-> -> Only when roused! (G) We don't have any empire building ambitions.
-> ->
-> HN> Have you ever seen an Aussie
-> HN> Naval Crew take over a bar?? (grin)
->
-> Fortunately I have so far managed to avoid that danger! Getting
-> between an Australian sailor and his beer would certainly be life
-> threatening, though!
->
Then you concede my point! (grin)
-> -> HN> be. Since most of Australia's imports and exports
-> -> HN> go via the Sea, being able to defend shipping
-> -> HN> lanes and ensure continuity of commerce is a
-> -> HN> strong selling point. A sub does not need to
-> -> HN> be able to outrun or catch a Pirate's speedboat.
-> -> HN> they can (a) simply track them to a "destination",
-> ->
-> -> That is an interesting possibility, if the snorkling sub quietly
-> -> followed a would-be pirate boat until it turned into a real one, then
-> -> suddenly surfaced nearby, with a weapon pointed at the pirates.
-> ->
-> HN> Most likely not snorkeling, running on
-> HN> electric power. The new generations
-> HN> of diesel electrics are fast, quiet, and
-> HN> capable of quite a bit only on electric
-> HN> power.
->
-> I would not expect pirate ships to be equipped with sonar detectors.
->
Nope, but they can certainly see a snorkle
above the waves...it leaves a very distinctive
wake.
-> -> HN> out. Torpedoes are not too expensive and are
-> -> HN> quite effective. I don't see deck guns on
-> -> HN> subs as a big factor, but a couple of good
-> -> HN> sized automatic rifles carried topside and
-> -> HN> mounted in exisitng mounts can do a lot.
-> ->
-> -> When being shown over an Oberon class sub in Fremantle recently I
was
-> -> told that the torpedoes cost some hundreds of thousands of $$$ each.
-> -> Pirates are becoming quite a problem in some parts of the world, and
-> -> they are getting better armed. I think one of the difficult aspects
-> -> to dealing with them is that they don't hoist the Jolly Roger any
-> -> more to identify themselves. They remain peaceful navigators of the
-> -> high seas right up to the point where they point guns at, or board
-> -> ships. Submarines could locate and shadow pirate "mother ships" and
-> -> warn other naval vessels. As pirates now use high powered rifles and
-> -> RPGs, a small cannon mounted on a sub would enable the sub to remain
-> -> out of range of the RPGs while firing at the pirates.
-> ->
-> HN> Torpedoes are far less expensive than
-> HN> cruise missles and such...and there are
-> HN> many "dumb" torps that work just as
-> HN> well as their more expensive cousins.
->
-> Yes, I suppose there are different kinds of torpedoes, and the
-> "intelligent" ones could come quite expensive...
->
-> HN> I'm more of a pragmatist, I'm in favor
-> HN> of simply torping the mother ship and
-> HN> letting nature (and hungry sharks) take
-> HN> care of business from then on...A much
->
-> Naughty, naughty!! I fear someone might object to that action,
-> tempting though it may be.
->
Probably so, but that's my view...no prisoners
no problems with prisoners.
-> HN> stronger deterrent than capture and imprisonment
-> HN> in a cell that's probably more comfy than
-> HN> the oringal home. However a deck mounted
-> HN> weapon is a problem in several ways. first
-> HN> it detracts from the "aerodynamic" design
-> HN> of the hull, and second it will make "noise"
-> HN> as the sub moves at speed, third it would
-> HN> be exposed to the corrosive effects of the
-> HN> salt water, making reliability a problem.
->
-> The Japanese used deck guns in WW2, when they shelled the Australian
-> east coast. In the museum at Newcastle there is the remains of a
-> shell casing that was found in Mrs Murphy's back garden after a
-> Japanese attack. I can remember seeing pictures of streamlined
-> cowlings used to seal off guns while the boat was under water.
->
Which take valuable time to remove and stow
before the gun can be prepped for use. The
ammo and such still has to come from below
decks. This isn't WWII any more, subs have
gotten a lot more sophisticated.
-> -> As I typed that, I heard a news item about 2 Australian frigates which
-> -> were on training exercises in the Gulf of Aden when they responded to
-> -> an emergency call to rescue a ship under fire from pirates. The
-> -> success of that operation may well result in Australia stationing
-> -> naval ships there permanently, as that Gulf is the main route for
-> -> Australian exports to Europe.
-> ->
-> HN> Sink em on sight I say.
->
-> It would help if the Somali government (if any) cooperated in removing
-> the pirates' shore bases.
->
the Somali gov't is non existant and
the country is run by "Warlords" who
conscript anyone they wish. and kill
any who resist.
-> -> I like the idea of submarines, and think they have uses in the future,
-> -> but probably in new fields. One point that you haven't mentioned is
-> -> the proven ability of a sub to travel beneath the Arctic ice floes to
-> -> reach otherwise inaccessible areas. I remember reading of a Russian
-> -> sub planting a flag at the North Pole. Now if a substantial oil field
-> -> was found there, that could be worth fighting over.
-> ->
-> HN> Going under the pole is not a big
-> HN> thing anymore. Lots of subs have
-> HN> done it by now. It's pretty shallow
-> HN> up there and not a place where
-> HN> subs would be very happy operating.
->
-> At times subs are the only means of getting there.
->
And what do they do when they get
there? Nothing... so why go?
-> -> younger days I worked on the design and development of a directional
-> -> sensing, air launched sono-buoy. (I was your "enemy"!) Two of those
-> -> dropped into the sea from an Orion could track a submarine (or surface
-> -> craft at night) for 30 miles or so - but only if it made a noise. The
-> -> Magnetic Anomaly Detector in the "sting" on the tail of the Orion will
-> -> only work if the plane is flying directly over the submerged boat.
-> ->
-> HN> There's a local PC-3 Orion that flies training missions
-> HN> around here...I give it rude gestures whenever I
-> HN> see it...although I can say my sub was never
-> HN> detected, even when our own Anti sub units
-> HN> were trying to track us. Modern subs now are
-> HN> even more stealthy than they were in my day.
-> HN> Once we "shadowed" a carrier group for three
-> HN> days and they never knew we were there..we
-> HN> worked firing solutions for 6 ships with certainty
-> HN> of kill shots of over 95%. When we turned that
-> HN> report in at the end of our patrol I can bet that
-> HN> the captains of those ships, and the commander
-> HN> of the carrier group got an earfull from CincPac
-> HN> (Commander in Chief Pacific Fleet)
->
-> That would have been most satisfying. I read that our Collins class
-> subs "sank" quite a few "enemy" ships during the last naval exercises.
->
That is where subs excel.
Do that with the pirates and the price
of doing business becomes a lot less
attractive.
chat with you soon!
hap
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