Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   32896
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2056
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33903
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24126
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4408
FN_SYSOP   41678
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13599
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16070
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22092
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   926
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1121
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3218
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13271
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4288
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
Möte COOKING_OLD3, 37489 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 19085, 195 rader
Skriven 2011-12-15 13:21:00 av MICHAEL LOO (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av DAVE SACERDOTE
Ärende: of cuts & off-cuts 361
==============================
 -=> Dave Sacerdote said to Dale Shipp <=-

 DS> "Boneless short ribs" aren't short ribs at all. They're cut from the
 DS> chuck, and although they may be cut from the part of the chuck plate
 DS> close to the ribs, they are leaner than true ribs. Marketers and 

Realistic consumers have come to accept that the term is code
for chuck; this caving in, shrugging at injustice, is bad
enough. But more irritating still is to see short ribs -
no "boneless" - on a menu and to discover your usual
bandsaw-cut-from-frozen rectangles of texturally challenged
though maybe flavorful shoulder meat.

The question is how this has been allowed to happen. Similar
phenomenon with crab, a major disaster for consumers and for
the culinary world. I tried to call that out when I first
encountered it back in the 1970s, but the efforts of one,
sans Internet, went pretty completely unnoticed. So now
people pay premium prices for surimi, and there's a whole
generation that thinks that crab means lurid pink sticks of
chopped and formed trash fish mixed with sugar.

 DS> restaurateurs, however, know that if they put "braised chuck" on the
 DS> menu, they're not going to sell as much because chuck is generally
 DS> considered to be a less-desirable cut by consumers.

True, o king. The right-thinking remedy of course would be to
develop deserved respect to the name and the cut, but that
takes time and might involve an initial sag in revenue. The
final result would be what has obtained for flank steak,
chicken wings, and so on - equally irksome.

Hey, wasn't there a company making high-end camping stuff
called Chuck Roast? Better name I suppose than Shoulder Clod,
and at least it tried.

 DSh> The short ribs that I see in the stores here seem to be 30% or
 DSh> more bone and 20% or more fat.  
 DS> And that is exactly what a short rib should be like: a wide bone with
 DS> fat and lean layered upon it, with a layer of fat on the top (how
 DS> much fat depends on the grade of the beef and how aggressively the
 DS> butcher decides to trim it off.)

Fratello!

 DS> creamy layers with the meat.  Many people leave behind most of the
 DS> fat when they eat short ribs, but it's presence during cooking does
 DS> magical things to the lean parts even if it isn't enjoyed for its
 DS> own sake.

Here I think you may bump up on the appeal of sous-vide, though
nobody is going to incline to accept the fact. Slower and lower
can give even to the inferior lean cuts some of the lovely melting
quality that people normally would get only from the best but
supposedly unhealthier parts.

Which brings up one of the ironies of sous-vide. Guess who the
earliest implementers of the technique were. Caterers, specifically
airline caterers. We travel consumers have been downing that
tenderized but not tenderized stuff with mixed pleasure literally
for decades. Of course, napped with a lovelessly crafted sauce of
battery acid vintage last Thursday, it won't show to full brilliance,
but there it is.

 This is hard to describe to someone who strongly favors
 DS> lean meat, but is instantly understood by diners who savor an
 DS> occasional decadent, fatty indulgence (hi, Michael!)

Thanks for the shout-out, but you're talking to the wrong
boy: for me, it's the occasional contrast of a streak of lean
in amid the pillows of soft melting deliciousness. For my most
recent carnivore day, which was last Sunday, I lunched on red-
cooked pork belly followed, after a not-so-grueling concert,
by brisket, extra fatty, of which to give me credit I ate only
half - the fatty half, but still just half.

 DSh> I'm also considering
 DSh> what the stores call ox-tail, but that is usually priced 
 DSh> high also.  It does have a decent marrow bone, and fairly 
 DSh> lean meat with only 10% fat or so.
 DS> This makes me wonder what the stores near you are marketing as
 DS> oxtail. Oxtails are truly the tail of the cattle, and although
 DS> many markets cut them with a bandsaw into slices of uniform
 DS> thickness, that is not how they should be sold.

Now there's an off-cut among off-cuts, but, as with many such,
as delicious as the amount of time and care expended. Not like a
steak, where you slap it on a hot surface for ten minutes and
boom, you've fed your family.

 DS> Ideally, oxtail should be sold jointed into natural segments, 
 DS> each piece being capped at both ends with cartilage and consisting
 DS> of a distinct bone enshrouded with meat and fat with silverside
 DS> wrapping the sides. See this illustration:
 DS> http://i-cdn.apartmenttherapy.com/uimages/kitchen/2008_12_02-Oxtail.jpg
(Of course, if you are lucky enough to find a whole oxtail, it is 
 DS> easy enough to joint yourself; just feel along the tail with your
 DS> fingertips until you come upon a knuckle, and cut between the bones.)

The thought just came to me that he's being sold shank, which
actually has a substantial marrow component. Shank can be pretty
good, but it's nothing like oxtail, which after all is an
extension of the spine.

 DS> Oxtails are, unfortunately, now priced pretty dearly.  When Maryanne
 DS> and I were first married, they were as cheap a cut of beef as one
 DS> could buy, so braised oxtails and oxtail soup were part of our
 DS> regular menu rotation. But that was back in the days before
 DS> inexpensive and offalish cuts of meat were "discovered" by cable TV
 DS> celebrity chefs. I don't think I've had oxtails in ten years, thanks to
 DS> Bam Boy,  the Ponytailed Pig, and other culinary d-bags driving the
 DS> prices up. 

Venting your spleen at the culinary d-bags (both of the ones
you cite are said to actually be able to cook) is misguided.
What's their job, after all - to make good food accessible, and
unlike some of the others, who made bad food fashionable, these
ones had a positive effect at least initially. Though there's
that pesky law of unintended consequences, hence the shortages
and bizarre jumps in price of some of our favorite foods. What
you want to fight I think is rather the unholy marriage of the
slow food ideal and the fast food mentality - both of these have
their points, but they don't go together.

 DS> With long, slow cooking, the silverside and connective tissue between
 DS> the muscles renders into soft and creamy envelopes, each containing
 DS> a wonderful, meltingly tender nugget of meat. But the true treat is
 DS> the cartilage caps, which turn translucent, smooth and creamy under
 DS> the ministrations of the simmering heat.

And leads me into another rant territory. That unholy matrimony
I was talking about. Well, the fast food mentality does not allow
for long, careful cooking. I see the message of your enemas, see
below, as being largely benign, if you take the underlying philosophy
to heart, which most of the audience probably does not or maybe does
not have the luxury of doing. You respect your food. You treat it
in appropriate ways. You do not pay lip service to what is right
just for fashion's sake. You do not boil your oxtail for an hour
and imagine that it's going to be as wonderful as your bugbears
claim it is. You have a palate and take the time and trouble to
do what's right by it.

Last oxtail stew I made simmered for 6 hours and further sat out
overnight cooling gradually. Not surprisingly, it merited the
superlatives that the cheffing heads reserve for the offalest
objects of their attention. I'd say that 3 hours is minimum,
barely allowing the deliciousness to develop, but most times
people can't spare even 3 hours. After all, Dancing with the
Stars is on in an hour. When I see the dish on a restaurant
menu I sometimes fall into the trap and order it, another
triumph of hope over experience: what should have developed into
your soft creamy envelopes are still edgy and plasticlike, and
what should be meltingly tender meat is still hardly softened.

 DS> As you can see from the picture, there is no "decent marrow bone"
 DS> in a properly-jointed oxtail - and oxtail bones are narrow to 
 DS> begin with anyway, with the widest segment having a bone perhaps 
 DS> a little wider than your thumb.

Youse guys's thumbs, maybe.

Oxtail stew
cat: mine
servings: 3

3 lb oxtails
nonvirgin olive oil
2 md onions
2 garlic cloves, mashed
2 stalks celery, chopped
thyme
bay leaf
1/2 bottle red wine
stock to nearly cover
6 carrots
3 stalks celery
salt
pepper
flour

Brown oxtails in a small amount of oil (they exude their
own fat). Make sure all sides are browned. Add the onions,
celery, and garlic and brown. Add herbs, wine, and stock.
Lower heat and simmer 4 hours. Add carrots and celery.
Leave out overnight, covered tightly. Next day, skim off
excess fat. Season, bring to the boil, and simmer 2 more
hours. Make a beurre manie with some of the fat and an
equal amount of flour, maybe a bit more. Raise heat to
high, add beurre manie, and let bubble until somewhat
thickened. Correct seasoning. Serve over rice, noodles,
or potatoes.

Source: moi, Williamsport PA, 2009
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
 * Origin: Since 1991 And Were Still Here! DOCSPLACE.TZO.COM (1:123/140)