Text 19297, 111 rader
Skriven 2011-12-20 13:47:00 av Glen Jamieson
     Kommentar till en text av Michael Loo
Ärende: PILATE YOUR MISSION11220
================================
 -=> Quoting Michael Loo to Glen Jamieson <=-

 DS> The problem is that sous vide cooks at a much lower temperature than
 DS> a crock pot and in some cases operates well within the temperatures
 DS> favored for the development of anaerobic bacteria, so there is no
 DS> sterilization involved.
 GJ> That was one of the claims made by protagonists of the sous vide.
 ML> In which case they could have been liable for reckless
 ML> endangerment. That's just silly and unscientific, and you
 ML> should have smelled a rat when you read that.

That claim was made on Wiki, so automatically doubts should be cast.
 
 GJ> Some bacteria, such as legionella, are killed or disabled by
 GJ> temperatures in excess of 60 C, but I know there are others which can
 GJ> survive boiling.
 ML> Considering that 60 (140F) is a high temperature for sous-vide,
 ML> of meats anyway, which is all I care about (most recipes I've
 ML> checked call for 55-57 for medium rare, i.e., too much for me -
 ML> I'd be inclined to use 52 tops, if at all), that's kind of useless.

There is a time/temperature relationship, but my personal preference
is not to risk long periods of cooking at less than 65 C.
 
 GJ> I tried gravy beef in my electric saucepan, adjusted to 75 C, and
 GJ> cooked for a total of 20 hours or so.  It was tender, but the meat
 GJ> lacked flavour, as the gravy had leached it out.

 ML> 75 is close to boil-in-bag territory, as the interior of foods
 ML> cooked that way don't actually get to 100. Anyhow, I suspect gravy
 ML> beef provides too much liquid for effective cooking sous vide.

That was not in a bag, but just my first take on slow cooking,
together with veggies and a splash of wine.  It was OK.

 ML> (The proper usage is "sous-vide" before and "sous vide" after
 ML> the noun or verb modified, though nobody, myself included, is
 ML> 100% consistent in this.)

I shall pass that information on to Greg, our resident pedant.

 ML> My next experiment
 GJ> will be closer to the sous vide principle by putting the meat in oven
 GJ> bags, then leaving those in water held at 75 or 80 C.

 ML> No, it won't, not nearly. One, you need to effectively vide
 ML> the bags (though that can be done well enough with a cocktail
 ML> straw and/or a small amount of liquid); two, the temperature.

I put the meat in the oven bag, immersed it below water level to
provide some external pressure, then sucked as hard as I could before
sealing the opening by twisting and wiring.  One bag also had the dial
thermometer stuck in the top, which somewhat complicated the
evacuation of air.

Regarding the temperature, I just couldn't bring myself to risk
holding it at below 60C for a day or so.  That would be equivalent to
leaving the saucepan outside all day on a nice summer's day!

(Re that, I do want to try making a solar cooker with some aluminium
foil, once I find a suitable black pot.)
 
 -=> Glen Jamieson said to Ruth Hanschka <=-
 
 GJ> I do recall being present at an incident at the Sac place where
 GJ> "someone" used a pepper spray on a hot frying pan.  That resulted in
 GJ> instant vacation of the house by all the occupants.  I am not sure who
 GJ> was responsible, as all the usual suspects deny it.

 ML> The principals were Clean Dave and myself, and we have never denied
 ML> it; we couldn't if we wanted to, as there were numerous witnesses,
 ML> all still alive (though their memories might not be). Further, we

Part of my problem...

 ML> were not substantially intoxicated when we performed the test (CT
 ML> Ruth claims we were, but I've got news for you - just because we
 ML> do things you wouldn't do doesn't mean we're drunker than you).

Of course, of course!

 ML> It wasn't a hot frying pan, it was a room-temperature pizza pan.
 ML> Room clearance was performed by wussies. After some dispersal of

I was outside already, so didn't actually see the act.

 ML> the capsaicin during the attempt to clean the stuff off the pizza

Ah, so that was where the heat came in?  As far as I could interpret
the uncouth cries in strange accents, "someone" combined heating with
the capsaicin spray.  I thought it was pre-heat, but apparently the
"someone" applied post-heat, with the unpredicted consequences.

 ML> pan, there was some more attrition, but there was never complete
 ML> abandonment of the premises, as I at least stayed around to wash

That was good of you.  And it saved you from being beaten to a pulp by
the other sufferers.

 ML> the pan. Stories do alter with age, but there is an underlying
 ML> truth underneath that should not morph with time.

I am sure that none of those present will ever apply heat to capsaicin
spray; not ever!


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