Text 22597, 115 rader
Skriven 2012-03-21 14:03:00 av Glen Jamieson
     Kommentar till en text av Hap Newsom
Ärende: SILENT SERVICE 20321
============================
 -=> Quoting Hap Newsom to Glen Jamieson <=-

Greetings Hap,

 -> Have submarines taken part in a defensive way during the last 60
 -> years?  German and Japanese boats were very effective at sinking
 -> transport ships in the N Atlantic and Australian E Coast, and they
 -> contributed to the attack on Pearl Harbour, torpedoing several ships.
 ->
 HN> The original Japanese position was that the
 HN> attack on Pearl Harbor was defensive in nature

"Defensive"??  I can't see that even the Japanese could claim that was
any more defensive than the repeated bombing of Northern Australia
shortly afterwards.  Or perhaps they considered it to be a
"Pre-emptive strike", such as Israel is talking about, on Iran?  If it
was, it didn't work.

 HN> as well. It can be argued that there is no such
 HN> thing as a "defensive" weapon as any "strike" can
 HN> be considered as an offense. 

Nothing can be 100% one or the other, but in aircraft, bombers are
primarily offensive, while fighters are primarily defensive.
 
 -> From what I have read, the Brits used submarines for clandestine
 -> delivery and pick-up of spies and secret agents at night, to France.
 -> Their invisibility enabled that function to be done effectively.
 ->
 HN> Both the Brits and US used subs in that
 HN> fashion, in France, Italy and other
 HN> places as well, for landing spies
 HN> and saboteurs, and even repatriating
 HN> "freedom fighters" to their homelands.
 
 ->  -> That makes my point that a submarine is primarily an offensive 
 ->  -> During WW2 over 40 ships were sunk by Japanese submarines along the
 ->  -> Australian East coast, and some towns shelled, but of course that
 ->  -> never publicised at the time.  The ferry sunk in Sydney Harbour
 ->  -> hardly be kept secret, though.  As I do not think that Australia has
 -> 
 ->  HN> Every "weapon" is both defensive and
 ->  HN> offensive. If you had subs defending your
 ->  HN> coast in WWII you'd have used them "defensively".
 -> All the attacks on Australia were by submarines and aircraft.
 -> As far as I know, Australia has had submarines in its Navy since 1914.
 -> Interesting point; how does sub vs sub work?
 -> 
 HN> Usually with one of them never reaching
 HN> the surface again. 

How is that done while submerged?  Like a duel, face to face, with
torpedoes at 10 km?
 
 ->  ->  ->  -> they are building large, 40 knot catamaran transports for
 ->  ->  -> 
 ->  ->  ->  HN> That would be AUSTAL...and they have 
 ->  ->  ->  HN> shipyards in the USA as well, Norfolk
 ->  ->  ->  HN> for one I think and I think the other
 ->  ->  ->  HN> is on the gulf coast somewhere
 -> Mobile.
 -> 
 ->  -> What do US Navy people think of the non-traditional Austal design of
 ->  -> the LCSs and JHSVs?  They seem to be far more successful here than 
 ->  -> dreaded Collins.

 -> As far as I have heard our military like them, as the multi-hull
 -> design allows them to keep going at 40 knots (not "per hour"!) in
 -> quite heavy seas.
 -> 
 HN> Personally I'd rather have a submarine.
 HN> For obvious and personal reasons! (grin)

Several years ago I read an article (New Scientist?) in which it was
proposed that huge submarines be used for transport of bulk goods,
such as oil, as they were more efficient, and could be faster than
surface ships.  And more recently, read that a deep sea submersible is
being built in Australia (I think) to go deeper than the 1960 record
of 35,800 feet by the Trieste.  There is a huge, unknown world down
there in the abyss, waiting to be explored.

MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05
 
      Title: (SBS) Ocean Trout Carpaccio
 Categories: Australian, Trout
      Yield: 1 servings
 
    120 g  Ocean trout
     50 g  Vine-ripened tomatoes
     10 g  Kalamata olives
     10 g  Spanish (red) onion,
      5 g  Caper berries
           Flat leaf parsley
           Extra virgin olive oil
 
  Slice Ocean Trout finely and arrange on plate. Dice the tomatoes and
  onion and slice the olives finely. Add the parsley, olive oil, salt
  and pepper and mix together gently. Sprinkle olive oil over trout.
  Top with the tomato salsa and garnish with caper berries and parsley.
  
  TIP Invest in a good quality olive oil. It will enhance the flavours
  and make it a very enjoyable meal.
  
  From Christian Heidenreich, Petuna Ocean Trout, Tasmania
  
  The Food Lovers' Guide to Australia SBS - Special Broadcasting Service
  http://www.sbs.com.au
 
MMMMM
 

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]

--- FLAME v2.0/b
 * Origin: Braintap BBS Adelaide Australia (3:800/449)