Text 279, 90 rader
Skriven 2004-10-02 17:06:00 av Michael Ragland (1:278/230)
Ärende: Re: Challenges for Evolut
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"Michael Ragland" <ragland37@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:cjk7g5$hlj$1@darwin.ediacara.org... 

Challenges for Evolutionary Ethics 
How can a trait that was developed under the pressure of natural
selection explain moral actions that go far beyond reciprocal altruism
or enlightened self-interest? How can, for instance, the action of
Maximilian Kolbe be explained from a biological point of view? (Kolbe
was a German priest who starved himself to death in a concentration camp
to rescue a fellow prisoner.) 


David Sloan Wilson began to broach this topic in his book, "Darwin's
Cathedral." 
Altruism and selfishness are crossed-purposes, so-to-speak, nested
within each other, creating an evolutionary oscillation between the two,
witnessed by the paleontological and anthropological record which shows
the rise and fall of many large communities over time 

Response:
I would have to read more of Wilson's work. My understanding of
biological altruism is based on kin selection/group selection.
Apparently the two forms of selection aren't the same but in kin
selection altruism is based on sacrificing one's self to insure the
propagation of "kin" genes. At least that is my superficial
understanding. In this way biological altruism= genetic selfishness. A
mother may sacrifice her life in rescuing her child but in doing so she
is selfishly making sure her "genes" are propagated. I could be mistaken
but I don't think kin selection has been proved in humans. It is usually
used as a model for certain insects. In any event, in human society
there are many examples of altruism which are not specifically kin
related such as police, firefighters, paramedics, soldiers, etc. I
suppose in a relatively "ethnically" homogeneous country such as Japan
or some of the European countries and other countries elsewhere these
aforementioned professions could be subsumed under "kin selection" or
some form of "group selection". Not immediate family kin but ethnic kin.
I think group selection has operated both positively and negatively. I
think Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan represented  seriously negative
forms of group selection. In such examples of group selection there is
an "ingroup" and an "outgroup" the latter being targeted for
discrimination, persecution and extermination. 

You write, "Altruism and selfishness are crossed-purposes, so-to-speak,
nested within each other, creating an evolutionary oscillation between
the two, witnessed by the paleontological and anthropological record
which shows the rise and fall of many large communities over time. I
think you are right. Do you have any examples from the anthropological
record which shows the rise and fall of many large communities over time
and this being a result of the crosses-purposes of altruism and
selfishness? 

Reason: 
In a population of largely selfish individuals, the formation of
altruistic groups within it have a distinct set of advantages; mutual
protection, self-sacrifice and forethought (eg. preparing stores for the
winter) all serve the greater interests of the group, and therefore such
groups begin to predominate the area due to their survival advantages of
strength through numbers. 

Once these large, predominantly altruistic groups begin to dominate an
area, the field is clear for selfish individuals to begin to prosper
within those groups by cheating and preying on the good-will of the more
altruistic individuals in the group. Once the selfish individuals
predominate again, the community is destroyed and the field is clear for
the formation of altruistic groups again. 

Response:
What is the evolutionary explanation for this?

Reason:
This oscillation between selfish and altruistic populations continues
until another permutation of traits creates a balance which allows the
two purposes to co-exist without diminishing each other.

Response:
I don't think such a permutation of traits has occured. Do you?

"It's uncertain whether intelligence has any long term survival value.
Bacteria do quite well without it."
 Stephen Hawking
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