Text 10036, 136 rader
Skriven 2004-11-10 09:52:00 av Robert Couture (2088.fidonews)
  Kommentar till text 10031 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Re: Science 1/2
=======================
-=> Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Couture <=-

 MvV> Ok, I understand.

 > Actually, I will agree that the moderatorship should be
 > passed to the FidoNews editor.

 MvV> By which you are saying that you do not presently recognise the
 MvV> FidoNews editor as moderator.

I did not say that.

 > However, I also would hope that the echolist would
 > be used as well. (Only to satisfy the International
 > nature of the echo.) Not required, but not a bad idea.

 MvV> Why? Why must an international echo be subject to a Z1 tradition? If
 MvV> so, why should Z2 users of a Z1 echo be denied the protection of EP1?
 MvV> (as is a Z2 tradition) Or this another one of those one way streets?

See you are twisting my intent.  I am NOT saying that the FidoNews echo shopuld
be under nay single tradition.  I am saying that both traditions could be
respected if people were willing to try.

 > It would certainly stay any weird attempts to hijack the echo.

 MvV> If everyone were to do what you preach: respect other zones rules and
 MvV> traditions, there would be no way the fidonews echo could be hijacked.
 MvV> The moderator of the FidoNews echo is the Fidonews editor who presently
 MvV> resides in Z2.



 MvV> But Jack Yates did not respect that: he listed the echo in his name.
 MvV> The echolist keeper did not respect that: he allowed this unaccuracy to
 MvV> enter the database. You did not respect it; you say Jack Yates is the
 MvV> rightfull moderator of this echo as he is listed as such.

 > I would hope that Jack Yates would pass that along.
 > However, I believe there are circumstances that do need
 > to be answered that I do not know of.

 MvV> Then you have not been paying attention. It was all in the open at the
 MvV> time. Also most of the answers were already in my message.

I do not often read this echo.  I may not have read anything to do with it. 
Until I volunteered to update the Software List, I really had little use for
FidoNews because, unfortunately, the content is not worth reading a lot of the
time.

Now I have more reason to look at it.

 > Did the prvious FidoNews Editor give moderatorship to Jack?

 MvV> No. (The answer to that was in my message)

Which message?

 MvV> Frank Vest - the previous editor - handed over both the snooze and the
 MvV> echo to Björn Felten.

And there it should have stayed.

 MvV> Björn - having been given the password by Frank - then attempted to
 MvV> update the listing and ran into almost the same problem as I did. The
 MvV> echolist keeper refused to process a record with "editors emeriti" as
 MvV> second moderator.

To be honest, I don't think Thom should have done that.  Would that not be the
same as a "co-moderator?"  <-- Intended in a humourous way. <g>

 MvV> After some debate Björn decided to excert his right of "choice" to make
 MvV> no further use of the services of the echolist.

That was an unfortunate decision.  I would have made the listing without the
Moderator Emeritus as moderator, and put it in the DESC field.  I then would
have argued that it is not Thom's position to decide if a editors emeriti as
second moderator should be allowed or not.

I think it would have been better to put them is the DESC field.  Or post them
in the rules at least.  It was not necessary to do it in the moderator field.

Although it was a proper gesture on Bjorn's part (Sorry I know Bjorn's name is
gong to get messed up because I am not on the JAmNNTPd server.  My wife is
recovering from surgey so I am using her computer and QWK packets to the BBS, 
This was easier than setting up a newsreader on her computer and figuring out
when I last read messages <g>  Plus I had to test some bugs in QWK processing
on the BBS.)

 MvV> The listing expired and Jack Yates grabbed it.

That was unfortunate.

 MvV> And so you recognise Jack as moderator of this echo...

Did I say that?  If so, I am going to have to retract that.

I respect Jack Yates, and will always respectfully be courteous to him in this
echo, but I do not think he should have done what he did.

 MvV> Which illustrates this so called "choice" to use or not use the
 MvV> echolist is a joke. A moderator is as free not to use the services of
 MvV> the echolist as a fish is free to leave the water. Not using the
 MvV> echolist is de facto giving up moderatorship in the eyes of the Z1
 MvV> community.

In an International echo, I think it fair that the moderator's location should
be important to the rules followed.

But I also know that most of the Z1 backbones will not carry any echo if it is
not in the echolist.

Perhaps that was Jack's original intent so that the fidonews echo would not be
dropped from the Z1 backbones?  Whatever happened after that falls into the
typical Z1/Z2 antagonistic behaviour that neither side seems willing to drop.

 > However, I also belive that the FidoNews Editor's position
 > should be an elected position with a set term of office.

 MvV> How about elections for the echolist keeper?

The logistics of that are pretty steep what with the various methods of contact
and stuff.  Not impossible, but difficult.

However, the FidoNews Editor and FidoNews are recognised entities within
FidoNet whereas the Echolist is not.

If you want that to change, then you need to find a way to change it and
convince the majority that it is a good idea.

Robert.

 
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