Text 10111, 84 rader
Skriven 2004-11-22 11:31:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Dan Ceppa (1:123/666.0)
Ärende: Science 1/2
===================
 >> It demonstrates that the moderator at least cares about
 >> keeping the Echo up and running.

 >  MvdV> Sorry, I fail to see it. Merely listing it does nothing towards
 >  MvdV> keeping the echo up and runing. What helps - in a limited way -
 >  MvdV> is to write messages.

 > The listing is also advertising for the Echo.

Even if that were efective - it isn't, the signal to noise ratio is much too
small - advertising is not going to solve FidoNet;s problems.

The main problem with FidoNet is that there are not enough participants. Echo's
die because there are to few people interested in the topic to keep the
conversation interesting.

"Advertising" will merely shift the audiance from one echo to another. That is
not going to solve FidoNet's problems.

It is like a village with to many shops. Advertising will not solve that
problem. The only long term solution is that some of the shops close down, so
that the others can survive.

 >>  MvdV> I don't buy that either. Echos die because of lack
 >>  MvdV> of flow. When the number of participants drops below
 >>  MvdV> critical mass, the echo dies. I

 >> Often, the "critical mass" drops because the prior driving
 >> force has left.

 >  MvdV> When an echo has become dependent on a single individual
 >  MvdV> as a "driving force" it is doomed anyway.

 > Your missing the point.  Without a moderator, the raison d'
 > etre of the Echo often gets lost.  Off topic messages take over.
 > And, depending on the Echo, fights occur.

I think /you/ are missing the point. Probably because you have not seen it
happen yet in your neck of the woods. Don't worry, you soon will.

 > Any potential new users take one look and sees nothing of
 > interest.  That's what kills Echoes.

That may ne the case in your neck of the woods where most echos are still above
critical mass. You have the advantage of having a larger pool of users that
have a language in cmmon.

Here in The Netherlands and Belgium there ar now some 50 sysops and the same
number of listed points. Hundred potential participants is not enough to keep
echomail going and so it dies.

Not because of fights, hundred potential participants of which only 10 or 20
are active is not enough to even keep a fight going. Echos die because not
because there is not enough interesting to be found in the noise, echo die
because there is nothing at all to be found.

 >  MvdV> When the echo is dropping below critical mass, /restricting/
 >  MvdV> the flow by only allowing on-topic messages is not going to
 >  MvdV> save it...

 > I agree.  But, the object is to redirect off-topic messages
 > into a topical format whenever possible.

That on;ly applies to the echos that are still above critical mass. For echos
that drop below it, there is nothing to redirect...

As I said, it will be a matter of time until you will see it happen too in your
neck of the woods. The writing is on the wall. Take the science echo. Most of
the postings are robot postings by a few enthousiasts. There is hardly any
discussion any more. (What these posts are meant to trigger). Just not enough
participants. It used to be a lively echo, but I am afraid it has dropped below
critical mass. The same goes for the HAM echo.

And even FN_SYSOP is at risk. The erratic flow is also a sign. Even the might
power of the English speaking community can not stop tis process. How many
active participants dow we have in FN_SYSOP? 20? 30?

It is not enough. Especially if the flow is spread out among a couple of
echos...

Cheers, Michiel

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