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Text 15809, 299 rader
Skriven 2005-11-10 12:05:12 av Roy Witt (1:1/22)
  Kommentar till text 15765 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: looters in NO
=====================
10 Nov 05 10:52, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Roy Witt:


 >>>> Radar/laser detector.

 MvdV>>> Laser is only used for the manned speed traops. The laser isn't
 MvdV>>> switched on until the cop sees that you are in range. Nothing to
 MvdV>>> detect until it is too late. with a bit of luck you may spot the
 MvdV>>> cop though.

 >> It's even easier, and legal, to jam laser guns. There is also
 >> a product on the market that is called 'laser veil'...it's a
 >> liquid that you apply to reflective surfaces such as license plates

 MvdV> Spraying on the license plate is illegal here.

That's too bad. Another freedom lost.

 >> and headlights. This reduces the affective range of laser guns
 >> from 77% to 32% at the 1000 foot range ...

 MvdV> So the cop just has to wait until you get a litlle closer.

By then, I'll know he's there.

 >> when you look at the front of my Z28, you'll notice that
 >> it has dark head light covers. They're treated with laser veil.
 >> Unfortunately, they have to be removed for night time driving,
 >> which means I have to obey the speed limit to a certain extent.
 >> And the reason for the removal of the front plate now becomes obvious.

 MvdV> Yes....

 >>>> (I wouldn't care if it was illegal)

 MvdV>>> You would if you got caught with one here.

 >> I didn't care that I got caught for speeding. I paid the fine.
 >> The best part was getting the goat of the CHP officer. Police are
 >> trained to intimidate and he sure had a hard time doing that with me.

 MvdV> I am puzzled with this attitude. You seem to consider the police
 MvdV> your enemy. An enemy that has the be mislead by tricks like "laser
 MvdV> veil" and radar jammers. An enemy that has to be defeated in a war
 MvdV> of intimidation.

They're certainly not my friends. Their tactics are to intimidate and lie.
I hate both.

 MvdV> I see the police as people hired to do job. Hired by my government
 MvdV> and paid from my tax money. These guys are not me enemy, they are
 MvdV> working *for* me.

Then why do they screw you in the ass with hidden radar cameras?

 MvdV> I thought Hazard county was a Hollywood fantasy. Your words seem to
 MvdV> indicate different.

Even though the movie "Smokey and the Bandit" portrays law enforcement as
a funny joke, it's not far from the truth showing how far a LEO will go.

 >>>> I used to have one that would detect the radar for automatic door
 >>>> openers at the supermarket while driving by.

 MvdV>>> Right. When the beam from the thing is in your direction. Now try
 MvdV>>> to detect that radar door opener from the back of the building!

 >> It will detect it if the radar signal bounces off of any object
 >> in the front of the building. You know, the multipath signal of VHF
 >> and up.

 MvdV> But the reflected signal will be 20 to 40 dB weaker than the direct
 MvdV> signal. That means you have to get a lot closer to detect it.

That'd depend on the sensitivity of the detectors front end.

 MvdV>>> Cause that would be more comparable to the situation with the
 MvdV>>> Dutch unmanned radar speed traps.

 >> And why wouldn't I know they're there, having lived there for
 >> some years like you have?

 MvdV> They keep adding new ones all the time. There are thousands of
 MvdV> them. I know of about a dozen in my direct viscinity. Further out
 MvdV> there are too many too keep track.

Seems like it's getting closer to '1984' than you realize.

 >> Sure, a visitor might get caught there, but they'd only get
 >> caught once.

 MvdV> And then they get caught again at the next intersection...

????

 MvdV>>> Here you see a picture of one of those speed traps.
 MvdV>>> http://flits.bnet.be/questDetails.jsp?id=18

 >> Yes, they look just like the red light cameras that we have
 >> here.

 MvdV> The one in the picture IS a red light camera.

Pretty observant, aren't I.

 MvdV>>> Here is a picture of the speed trap in sito:
 MvdV>>> http://users.telenet.be/pzloon/pzloon/img/flitspaal002%20groot.jp
 MvdV>>> g

 MvdV>>> This picture was taken in Belgium, but they are used in the same
 MvdV>>> way in The Netherlands. Note that it is facing in the direction
 MvdV>>> of movement. I this case the driver of the Mercedes could easily
 MvdV>>> spot the thing and slow down, but ever so often they are placed
 MvdV>>> behind an obstruction of some kind and you don't see them until
 MvdV>>> it is too late. As the radar beam is facing forward a rader
 MvdV>>> detector would have to relay on backscatter. On e does not eneter
 MvdV>>> the prime beam until it is too late.

 >> Depending on the sensitivity of the detector, it would pick up
 >> a signal from backscatter.

 MvdV> The signal must be detectable. After all that is how the thing
 MvdV> works. But the signal is a lot weaker than the direct signal, so
 MvdV> you have to be real close. Most likely too close to be of any use.

As long as I'm not yet in the camera's range, I'll be just fine.

 >> Not that you'd be aware of where it was coming from,
 >> until it was probably too late.

 MvdV> That too.

 MvdV>>>>> Illegal here.

 >>>> Here too, yet they're still sold and used. Just like 11mtr
 >>>> (CB) linear amplifiers, they're also sold and used here.

 MvdV>>> I have never seen them here. My guess is that here ius no
 MvdV>>> percentage in it as the chance of being caught is too big.

 >> There is also polarizing paint for the plate. Not detectable
 >> by the naked eye from 2m away.

 MvdV> If it has any effect, it must be detectable. Simply look at it
 MvdV> through  the "eyes of the camera" that it is supposed to defeat.

And that is where the camera would be found faulty. It isn't able to
distinguish anything on the plate.

 >>>>>> Shades of Big Brother.

 MvdV>>>>> I don't see it that way. The camara only gets activated when
 MvdV>>>>> one is speeding. How is that worse than a human cop standing on
 MvdV>>>>> the side of the road watching traffic?
 >>>> See US Constitution, Amendment 4.
 MvdV>>> That means nothing to me.

 >> We're safe from search and seizure in our houses and papers.
 >> The USSC also included cars.

 MvdV> Measuring the speed of a car is not searching it.

It has been argued in a court of law that it is an invasion of privacy,
which is protected by the USC..

 >> My license was suspended once when I was 16 for having too
 >> many points deducted due to too many moving violations. Since
 >> I was a minor, the points system was even harsher than it was for
 >> adults.

 MvdV> My licence was never suspended though I have been caught a couple
 MvdV> of time on speeding in my younger years.

I had three tickets within a 3 month period.

 >>>> Not to mention, that when you get a moving violation, your
 >>>> insurance premiums are subject to an increase.

 MvdV>>> How would they know? Big Brother telling them?

 >> Yeup. Insurance rates are determined by your age, driving
 >> record and in some states, by your credit rating.

 MvdV> Same here. The insurance companies however do not have access to
 MvdV> police records. If you are in an accident and do not claim the
 MvdV> damage from the insurance, it does not go in their records and so
 MvdV> it has no effect on the no-claim discount.

If you are in an accident, the other driver's insurance company will
notify yours. That's how they work.

 >> When I turned 25, my insurance premiums were cut in half, as I
 >> became a new member of a different age group.

 MvdV> I don't recall the details that far back. I know that I am in the
 MvdV> highest discount group as I have not been in an accident for over
 MvdV> ten years.

They only go back three years here. My wreck of 2001 is now off the
record.

 MvdV>>> I do not know if that legally qualifies as forgery. I do
 MvdV>>> know that I'd rather pay the fine for speeding than be caught
 MvdV>>> in an attempt to avoid detection with a thing like that.

 >> Ahhh, no guts, no glory.

 MvdV> Just simple cold calculation.

 MvdV> When I was young I took my chances with the speed traps en got away
 MvdV> with it most of the time. Now the roads are so crowded that
 MvdV> excessive speeding is irresponsible if not impossible. Can't speed
 MvdV> in a traffic jam...

Wanna bet? I've seen youngsters jump from lane to lane, cutting people off
and causing accidents behind them in traffic jams. I simply try to avoid
them if it's at all possible.

 MvdV> Plus that the methods of detection have improved to the point that
 MvdV> there is no escape. The latest system is "traject controle".
 MvdV> Camaras at checkpoint A record you time of passing and then when
 MvdV> you pass checkpoint B five kilometres further down the road you are
 MvdV> clocked again. Arrive their too early and you get the ticket in the
 MvdV> mail.

It is '1984'....

 MvdV> Yes, forged plates can defeat that system, but the penalty for
 MvdV> forgery multiplied by the chance of detection is substantially
 MvdV> higher than the fine for speeding. And all that just to get there a
 MvdV> few minutes earlier? No percentage in it.

That's true. My dad used to say to those passing him; "Hurry up and wait."

 >>>> You don't need a license to use a passive device.

 MvdV>>> Explain to me how one can add white noise to the reflected signal
 MvdV>>> with a 100% passive device.

 >> I honestly don't remember what the device is. It's a diode
 >> device activated by RF

 MvdV> And powered by the RF. Not a passive device...

It is passive as long as there's no RF present. RF at the frequency used
by radar.

 >> and all I can tell you at the moment is that I first found it
 >> in a HAM magazine project written back in the 80s.

 MvdV> I have seen similar things. Not for radar jamming but for jamming
 MvdV> ham repeaters. I collected half a dozen when I was the guardian of
 MvdV> the local 2 meter repeater....

Those are usually run on battery power. I've planted and found a few of
those in my time too. Back in the 70s, there were repeater wars going on
in San Diego. I was just a newby at it, but had to learn quickly.
Fortunately I had a good teacher.

 >>>> He wouldn't know, as the device is passive and only adds white
 >>>> noise to a reflected radar signal.

 MvdV>>> He would notice that his speed trap is not working as expected.
 MvdV>>> That would make him suspicious and take a closer look. Over here
 MvdV>>> cops are not stupid. He might spot it.

 >> Any radar jammer here has to be type accepted and licensed by
 >> the FCC. It's not illegal to have one,

 MvdV> It is over here. It is also illegal to sell them.

Hmmm. Another good black market item for my list.

 >> but then, from the reports I've read, none of them work anyway.
 >> However, it's not illegal to build and operate a
 >> passive device,

 MvdV> An oscillator powered by the rectified signal of another
 MvdV> transmitter is not considered a passive device here. It is in the
 MvdV> same class as a transmitter powered by a solar cell.

Too bad. More 1984...

 >>>> It draws no current, nor is it electrified until
 >>>> it sees that radar signal.

 MvdV>>> Aha, sso when in operation it *does* draw current.

 >> It can't draw current from a source it doesn't have.

 MvdV> The source of power is the radar signal.

Which makes it passive until it receives that signal. IE; one powered by
an RF signal isn't detectable without that signal.


Roy
--- Twit(t) Filter v2.1 (C) 2000
 * Origin: Hacienda de Rio de Guadalupe * South * Texas, USA * (1:1/22)