Text 16577, 85 rader
Skriven 2005-11-19 22:36:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av MICHIEL VAN DER VLIST
Ärende: Saddam Hussein's Murders
================================
-=> Quoting Michiel Van Der Vlist to Frank Scheidt <=-

 >> Someone is lying if they consciously present a known falsehood
 >> as truth.

 MVDV>> And that is precisely what happend. GWB said *he had proof* that
 MVDV>> there were WMD's. If he actually had proof, they would have been
 MVDV>> there. They were not there, ergo he lied when he said he had proof.
 
 > Could you even *remotely* admit that the WMDs Saddam Hussein
 > had *might* have been moved?

 MVDV> Moved to where? What idiot would be willing to hide them for what by
 MVDV> most of his neighbours was considered an apostate? In the near
 MVDV> certainty that if it ever came out, they would be the target of the
 MVDV> wrath of the US. 

I note you failed to answer the question ...

 > Do you consider that an absolute impossibility??

 MVDV> Not an absolute impossibility, just very unlikely. That assumes of
 MVDV> course they were there in the first place. Everything points to there
 MVDV> having been no WMD's in Iraq after 1991.
 
Not so!  The intelligence agencies of *five* different nations 
(including the US) stated they existed in Iraq.

 >> If one does not know their information is untrue,

 MVDV>> if one does not know the information is true, presenting it
 MVDV>> as true is lying.
 
 > GWB had reason to believe what he presented as true WRT Saddam's
 > WMDs *was* true, hence he was justified in saying that.

 MVDV> He had reasons to present it as true: he needed an excuse for the
 MVDV> invasion of Iraq.

It wasn't an "excuse".  It was a *reason*!
 
 > *Now* it's not so certain that it was true, but when GWB said it
 > it *was* certain.

 MVDV> No, it was not. The UN inspectors who searched Iraq prior to the
 MVDV> invasion said they found nothing to indicate there were WMD's. There
 MVDV> never was any convincing evidence for their presence.
 
They didn't search long enough or thoroughly enough ...

 > There's a chance Saddam actually *didn't* have WMDs.

 MVDV> Just prior to the invasion that chance had grown to a near certainty.

"Near" counts mostly in horseshoes ...
 
 > Unfortunately we don't really know.

 MVDV> The only reason you don;t know is that you can not face the truth:
 MVDV> your president needed an excuse to invade Iraq. So he made up the WMD
 MVDV> story. You bought it.

You have bought the anti-Bush propaganda ... too bad!

 MVDV>> If GWB's conviction of the presence of WMD's in Iraq was
 MVDV>> based on belief instead of facts, he should have said so.
 MVDV>> Not saying so was a lie by omission.
 
 > Knowledge of *all* kinds is based upon belief.  If you
 > disagree, then give us an example of knowledge *you* have
 > which is *not* based upon belief.

 MVDV> Presently the sun is shining here and the outside temperature is 4
 MVDV> degree Celsius. Two hours ago it was -1.

 MVDV> That knowlegde is based on observation, not belief.

OK ... though you *do* have faith in your temperature detection 
device -- that it is accurate.

... "Ann's my sister," said Andy raggedly.

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