Text 17983, 146 rader
Skriven 2005-12-06 11:04:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 17851 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
Ärende: Name-Calling
====================
 MVDV>> My family name is "van der Vlist". It is not a result of the choice of
 MVDV>> my parents. It is inhereted. Family names with "van", "van de" or "van
 MVDV>> der" are  always used in full.

 > OK, your customs are different than ours.  That's obvious ...

I am not all that sure if it really is a matter of custums. Maybe it is just a
matter of language after all. whatever it is, it os interesting....

 >> *I*, for example, could immediately start using the name "Michiel
 >> van der Vlist" as my own, without even a need to "register" it.

 MVDV>> But why on earth would you do that?

 > I *wouldn't* but you should recall this is a nation of immigrants
 > -- citizens originally from all over the world.  Usually they
 > want to "fit in".  One way of doing that is by having a name
 > which sounds more "American" than, say,  "Wrwyskinski".

That makes sense.....

 > That's usually the reason people change their names here.

Over here immigrants seldom change their names. We have a lot of people here
with Turkish or Maroccan names.

 > How would an immigrant named "Michiel Van Der Vlist" likely
 > "Anglicize" *that* name here?

Maybe he wouldn't. I once was an immigrant. In the republic or South Africa in
the sevemtees. I did not change my name. But then Southh Africa is a different
matter. English is just one of the languages, the second language was Zuid
Afrikaans and there are many people with names starting with "van" or "van der"
in South Africa. "van der Vlist" did not stand out.

Many of the native English speakers had problems with pronouncing my first name
though. So I allowed them to pronounce it as "Michael".

 > Possibly "Michael List", for example.

Dropping the 'V'? Not likely.

 > And as a *new* immigrant that would pose no special problem
 > for he'd not have a long history of activities here using
 > his original name.

Yes, I can see that...

In these time of global communication however, peole would not start completely
from scracth however. They have written articles, obtained degrees, etc, etc..

 >> Also there would be no legal problems --

 MVDV>> I am unsure about the details here. It is possible to legally change
 MVDV>> one's name, but it is a lot of hassle and expensive and it is rare. As
 MVDV>> for informal use of an alias, that too is rare. It could lead to
 MVDV>> problems as it can easely lead to a suspicion of abuse. I *think* it is
 MVDV>> ok to give a false name when signing into a hotel. But you better make
 MVDV>> *very* sure you pay the bill before you leave or you may end up on the
 MVDV>> wrong end of a charge of forgery with intent to avoid payment...

 > Here, too, changing one's name with the intent to use the name
 > in some illegal activity would cause additional trouble with the law.

If one uses an "unofficial name" one could easily run into problem without
having the intention to break the law.

If I were to spend a night in a hotel and forget to pay, there will be no
serious problem if I left my real name and address at the desk. The hotel would
simply send me a bill and if I pay within a reasonable time, that's it.

When I gave a false address, I may be in trouble if I walk to my car to pick up
a box of kleenex....

 MVDV>>> So you don't mind at all that I started this reply to you with a
 MVDV>>> "Hello Scheidt" at the top?

 >> Of course not.

 MVDV>> Interesting. Are you sure it is not just you that doesn't mind but
 MVDV>> that it is representative for the US as a whole.

 > I presume it's widespread for I know a number of people who
 > are addressed routinely by their last name.

I find that very odd. If it really is common, why have I *never* heard it in
American movies or TV series?

 > Even in *my* case among the many neighbors I knew as a child
 > there was one family in which the people addressed me *always*
 > using my last name only -- and they were *friends*.

Addressing a child with his last name is even weirder to me...

 > That usage means nothing.  Of course there might be parts of
 > the U.S. where it *isn't* done, but, in general, I think it's
 > pretty common.

Hmmm....

 MVDV>> In my culture it definitely is insulting. Not a "dualling to the
 MVDV>> death" insult, but an insult nevertheless.

 > So if someone comes here from Europe wanting to insult me for
 > some reason, then addresses me by my last name he'd be mighty
 > disappointed ... heh heh heh ...

The reverse is worse. Making an innocent remark that comes across as an insult.
When you ever come t The Netherlands, I advise against addressing people by
their last name *only*.

[..]

 >> So Germany only lost the war "somewhat"???

 MVDV>> No. Try again.

 > Why "No"?  In many cases there *are* only two shades.
 > Examples, pregnancy, death, virginity, etc.

And in many other cases there are grades. Examples: guilt, innocence, winning,
losing, dark, light.

 >>> WRT WWII one side won; one side lost.

 MVDV>>> There is that binary thinking again....
 >
 >> Good for me!

 MVDV>> So how about Poland? Did it win or lose?

 > The answer to that requires a specific date.

We were discussing WWII weren't we?

 > When Germany overran Poland, it lost.  When the Soviets
 > "liberated" Poland, it lost again.

Yet, Poland was part of the same coalition as the US. The US won and Poland
lost you say?


Cheers, Michiel

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 * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)