Text 18339, 129 rader
Skriven 2005-12-10 10:44:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av MICHIEL VAN DER VLIST
Ärende: [2/2] Sociopaths!
=========================
-=> Quoting Michiel Van Der Vlist to Frank Scheidt <=-

 >> False!  A hero is one who risks his own life for the common good.

 MVDV>> Isn't that what Mohammed Atta did? Sacifice his life for the common
 MVDV>> good? In his perception of "common good" of course.
 
 > No.  He did *not* give his life for the common good.

 MVDV> Read again: _in_his_perception_

One cannot know what *he* (Atta) perceived ...

 MVDV> Obviously that differs from *your* perception of what is the common
 MVDV> good. 
 > He gave his life based on some insane misconception.

 MVDV> In your opinion...

And my opinion is correct ...
 
 > Consider all the Arabs who have been killed as a result of his
 > "sacrifice".  Are those deaths part of his "common good"?

 MVDV> Collateral damage....

But those homicide/bombers *wanted* to kill them -- "collateral 
damage" applies only to unintended deaths, for example, Iraqis 
accidentally killed by American troops who were aiming at 
terrorists.
 
 >> A hero is *not* one who deliberately slaughters 3,000 for no
 >> valid reason!

 MVDV>> Then neither is one who slaughters 300.000.
 
 > OK, so?

 MVDV> So we agree on that.
 
Sure.  However I suspect you are thinking of 300,000 in other 
than a *theoretical* way, as *I* was.

 > BTW what is the slaughter involving the 300,000?

 MVDV> The bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

First, I doubt 300,000 were killed as a result of the bombing.  
Second, most of them were collateral damage.

 MVDV>>> The Atta gang was at war with the US though....
 
 >> So why didn't they *declare* war, *then* attack?

 MVDV>> Formally declaring war seems to have become out of fashion. The US led
 MVDV>> the way in that. Korea: no formal declaration of war. Vietnam: no
 MVDV>> formal declaration of war. Guatemale: no formal declaration of war.
 MVDV>> Afghanistan: no formal declaration of war. Iraq: no formal declaration
 MVDV>> of war.
 
 > You've got that nearly correct.  The Korean thing was a UN
 > Police Action ... it had nothing to do with any needed declaration
 > of war by the U.S.

 MVDV> Yeah, well you are always quick to hide behind the UN when it suits
 MVDV> your agenda....

You *deny* it was a UN Police Action as I stated??
 
 > Vietnam was not really a war.

 MVDV> If it walks like a duck, quacks like a dog and swims like a duck, then
 MVDV> for all practical purposes it IS a duck.
 
OK, but Vietnam wasn't really a war.

 > Lyndon Johnson merely sent hundreds-of-thousands of American
 > soldiers to help South Vietnam -- a *big* mistake!

 MVDV> A mistake indeed. And now GWB made that same mistake by "merely
 MVDV> sending hundreds of thousands soldiers to help Iraq.....

Not a valid comparison.  GWB invaded Iraq to help *us*, to defend 
*us*, as well as the world, of course.

 > Guatemala?  What's *that* one about?

 MVDV> Another "police action" that went sour.

I'm not familiar with all the UN activities ...
 
 > As for Afghanistan I have no idea why the Congress didn't
 > declare war on Afghanistan -- or Iraq.

 MVDV> Then why expect others to follow that obsolete custom?

Because that's the way it should be done!

 MVDV>> These days one just flies towards the target an drops the
 MVDV>> bombs. That's what atta did.           
 
 > The actions of a madman can seldom be explained ... [sigh] ...

 MVDV> Indeed, so don't bother trying to explain why GWB attacked Iraq.
 
The reason for the invasion is well-known.  GWB explained himself 
eloquently ...

 >> That's the civilized way to wage war.

 MVDV>> The concept of civilised war was abandoned with the inception
 MVDV>> of fire arms. when one did not have to come close enough to
 MVDV>> the enemy to look him in the face in order to fight with him.
 
 > That's certainly *one* definition.

 MVDV> Hear hear...

Actually the use of fire-arms *did* constitute a very significant 
change in the way war was conducted.  I suppose, though, the use 
of bow-and-arrow *also* was a significant change.  Clouds of 
arrows aimed in the general direction of the enemy, *also*, did 
not involve seeing individual faces.

... "Sail to Turkey ÄÄ drop Ankara here";  Travel Ad

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