Text 18666, 156 rader
Skriven 2005-12-14 10:46:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av MICHIEL VAN DER VLIST
Ärende: [2/2] [1/2] [1/2] [1/2] [
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 >>> Part 2 of 2...

 MVDV> argument falls apart.

I have demonstrated objectivity on FidoNet so *many* times that 
my ability to be objective is no-longer questioned.
 
 >> I am merely giving you some information.  What use, if any, you
 >> make of it is up to you.

 MVDV>> You sre *selectively* feeding me information. And some of it is false.
 
 > I haven't given you *any* false information.

 MVDV> Some of the information you gave me is demonstratably false.

I haven't seen any such "demonstrations" ...

 MVDV>> Only the gerneral opinion of the people of the US. Not the
 MVDV>> people of Iraq or Afghanistan. It appears they want something
 MVDV>> very different from what the US people want. They seem to
 MVDV>> want an Islamic state governed by the Sharia.
 
 > You've just provided *another* reason for our liberation of Iraq.
 > We certainly don't want *that* kind of governing!

 MVDV> How are you going to stop it if that is really what they want?

Not being in the decision-making loop I cannot say.

 MVDV> The only way that I can see is put another Saddam in the saddle. Now
 MVDV> that would really be a joke wouldn't it?
 
If one has a very unusual sense of humor.

 >> al Qaeda ...

 MVDV>> Al Qaeda is not a "regime". That's a myth created by the
 MVDV>> US propaganda. It does not exest as a centralised organisation
 MVDV>> with Bin Laden in the middle.
 
 > heads in the sand claiming al Qaeda is a myth.

 MVDV> But it is. Al Qaeda  as a centralised international organisaton is a
 MVDV> hoax created by the US spin doctors to gain public support.

Did I tell you about J. Edgar Hoover and the Mafia?

 MVDV> A hoax that terrorists all over the world glady adopt by calling
 MVDV> themselves "Al Qaeda" to spread more fear and terror.
 
 > Of course, as usual, they're counting on the US to save them!

 MVDV> Save form what? Terrorism? You are unable to save anyone from
 MVDV> terrorism. 
 MVDV>> Opinions are just opinions. They are all equally correct.
 >
 > "All equally correct"??!?!?!!    I cannot believe you really
 > believe that!

 MVDV> I am not in the believing bussiness. If you feel the need to believe,
 MVDV> I suggest you consult someone who makes believing his profession. A
 MVDV> priest or an iman or whatever suits your preference.

Don't you really believe *anything*?   Amazing!!
 
 >> If we had blockaded Japan the people there would have suffered
 >> terribly. Thousands would have starved.

 MVDV>> *Only* thousands? Compare that to the 300.000 that were
 MVDV>> killed by the bombs.
 
 > Why do you keep coming up with that 300,000 number?

 MVDV> Why do you make an issue out of 200.000 versus 300.000 if the real
 MVDV> issue is thousands versus hunderds of thousands.

I simply want you to stick with known facts.

 MVDV> Debating trick #12: Diversion.

You are an expert at that??
 
 > The total number is of no real importance since it was large
 > enough to show we had a powerful weapon,

 MVDV> To show the power of the weapon you did not really have to kill
 MVDV> anyone. Blowing an uninhabited island to smithereens would have done
 MVDV> that. 

That was considered but rejected for technical reasons ...

 > thus saving over a million lives.

 MVDV> Conjecture, not fact.
 
The number of deaths was extremely likely to have been well over 
one-million.  Call it conjecture if that pleases you.

 >> We did the humane thing -- the act which *ended* the war

 MVDV>> It has not been proven that that was the ony way to end the war.
 
 > No one has ever *claimed* it was the only way.  However, since
 > it was the quickest,

 MVDV> Not proven either.

Tell me how *would* you prove the quickest way to end the war??
 
 > most humane way to win, that's what Truman did.

 MVDV> Some claim that after the raids on Tokyo Japan was ready to surrender,
 MVDV> but Truman would not let them. He needed an excuse to throw test his
 MVDV> bombs in a real life situation with real people. The bombs came too
 MVDV> late to use against Germany, so Japan beca,me the target. Had Truman
 MVDV> allowed Japan to surender earlier, he would have no enemy left to test
 MVDV> the bomb. 

That "some claim" nonsense is often used by history revisionists.  
It means exactly *nothing*.

 >> and which ultimately caused Japan to be the democracy it is today.

 MVDV>> You can not prove that dropping those bombs and killing
 MVDV>> 300.000 people was the *only* way toi achieve that goal.
 
 > Not the "only", but the *best*!

 MVDV> How can you possibly know? Germany became a democracy without having
 MVDV> ben the target of the bomb.

Irrelevant WRT use of the bomb in Japan

 MVDV>>> There is no way that you can win either. It is a lose-lose situation.
 
 >> We will win.  Why?  Because, unlike the Vietnam "war" this is
 >> definitely in our National Interest.

 MVDV>> Yes, you need the oil.
 
 > The *world* needs the oil.

 MVDV> And you take it...
 
 > How many oil wells in The Netherlands??

 MVDV> There is very little oil here. We do have a lot of gas though.

In every sense of the word ... heh heh heh ...

... "Reykjavik:  A niceland to visit."; Travel Ad

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