Text 18746, 196 rader
Skriven 2005-12-15 17:10:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av MICHIEL VAN DER VLIST
Ärende: Copyright
=================
-=> Quoting Michiel Van Der Vlist to Frank Scheidt <=-

 MVDV>>> Of course not. Trolls never admit to trolling.
 >
 >> So if I deny that you will say, "Trolls always deny it" ...

 MVDV>> No, I will say: "Trolls never admit that trolls never admit to
 MVDV>> trolling". ;-)
 
 > So I won't bother denying it -- even though I'm not trolling ...

 MVDV> So you deny you are trolling but do not deny that trolls never admit
 MVDV> that trolls never admit to trolling.

How would *I* know anything about trolls?  Oh, sure, I've been 
a victim a time or two I suppose, but that's about it ...

 MVDV> Interesting...
 
 >> [sigh] ... My objective here is to inform you and to help you
 >> to think straight.

 MVDV>> I do not need help to think straight. I have had that ability for
 MVDV>> about... 55 years I'd say.
 
 > Oh to be so young again ... [sigh] ... I still faintly
 > remember those years ...

 MVDV> Now there is a reason for envy isn't there?

In some ways, yes ...

 MVDV>> It is carrying coal to Newcastle.
 
 > But Newcastle, Indiana, *needs* coal ...

 MVDV> I was of couse refering to the "Newcastle" ,eamt is the saying: the
 MVDV> one in the UK.
 
Actually I suspected that.  Of course I couldn't be certain.

 >> Is it an *impossible* goal?

 MVDV>> No more than making a difference when carrying coal to Newcastle..
 
 > Indiana?

 MVDV> UK.

OK ...
 
 >> Sure ... so?  That's nothing like the victory we have won as
 >> well as the one now in progress.

 MVDV>> What victory?
 >
 > I thought we were discussing Iraq ...

 MVDV> We were.

So *that's* the victory of which I speak.  BTW, did you know the 
Iraqis held a national election today to select a "permanent" 
government.  Without our liberation they'd still be slaves.

 MVDV>> You are not an objective observer.
 
 > I thought we had finally settled that I *am* ...

 MVDV> That shows you do not always think straight. We obviously have NOT
 MVDV> settled that.
 
In *my* mind it's settled ... you might as well join me ...

 >>> I think the estimate is that they *are* mostly foreign

 MVDV>>> There are no facts to support that theory.
 >
 >> I'm not aware of how they came to that conclusion.  I'm simply
 >> reporting their conclusions.

 MVDV>> IOW, you accept their words for gospel without checking the facts.
 
 > Not "for gospel", but until I have reason to suspect otherwise
 > I'll accept what they say

 MVDV> Then you have not thought it through very well. (Contrary to what you
 MVDV> claim you always do before writing something down) There are many
 MVDV> reasons to suspect otherwise.

But I *have* thought it through.  It makes good sense, lacking 
other evidence, to accept a person's word especially WRT 
something relatively unimportant such as the national identity of 
the murdering insurgents in Iraq.  What difference does it make 
to *my* life if a given murderer in Iraq is a native of Iraq or 
from, say, Syria.  He's *still* dead, blown to bits.

If you, for example, told me you liked oranges I'd accept that 
without question.  In the event you actually *hated* them, what 
effect would that have on my life?  None!

 > ... I even accept what *you* say, aside from some of your
 > foolish statements which I know to be false.

 MVDV> IOW you do NOT accept what I say, except when it matches your
 MVDV> preconceived notions.

That's not what that statement of mine means ... [sigh] ...

 MVDV>>> I would not be too sure about that.
 >
 >> You always want evidence.

 MVDV>> Can't help it, it is in my nature. And the more it conflicts with what
 MVDV>> I already know, the stronger the evidence required.
 
 > Good!  You're learning ...

 MVDV> I already learned that .. eh .. 55 years ago.
 
 >> OK, here's some:  Yesterday a group of Iraqis *captured* an
 >> Iraqi terrorist-leader and delivered him to the American troops.
 >> That shows the Iraqi citizens are finally beginning to *act*
 >> like free men.

 MVDV>> One swallow does not a summer make. And why did they hand him over?
 MVDV>> Why was he not tried by the Iraqis themselves?
 
 > I have no idea ... as for that "swallow" saying, in every
 > summer there has to be the *first* swallow seen ...

 MVDV> True. And in when the first has been seen, we know with near certainty
 MVDV> that more will follow. And that is where the analogy ends. The incident
 MVDV> you mention may just as well be the first /and/ the last of its kind.

Possibly, however it might equally well be the first of 
*thousands* of such cases.  The situation in Iraq will change 
greatly after they've established a stable gummint of their own 
elected officials.

 MVDV>> Besides the idea that there is such a thing as "the Iraqi
 MVDV>> people" is a fallacy. There are at least three people in
 MVDV>> Iraq; The Kurds, the Sunnites and the Sjiites (sp?).
 
 > We are forming those disparate groups into one nation!

 MVDV> Doesn't look like you are getting anywhere...
 
We're making great progress!  Today's election proves it.

 > After all, the U.S. itself consists of Christians, Jews, Muslims
 > (both Sunni and Shiite) as well as other religions.  We seem to be
 > able to act in a civilized manner toward each other ... usually ...

 MVDV> That old mistake again. Thinking that what works for the US ahould
 MVDV> work everywhere. Iraq is not the US...

People *want* control of their destiny.  We're giving that to the 
down-trodden Iraqis.  It will work, because it fills a basic 
need.

 MVDV>> These three do not get along well, to use an euphemism.
 
 > They *do* have some slight "disagreements" to euphemize myself.

 MVDV> Indeed what a euphemism!
 
 >> Even the insurgents now have a type of freedom.

 MVDV>> Great!
 
 > You approve of those murdering insurgents killing their fellow
 > Arabs?   Most of their victims are Arabs, you know.

 MVDV> Can't you recognise sarcasm when you see it?

Can't you recognize counter-sarcasm when you see it?  ... heh heh 
heh ...
 
 >> It says we've taken a terrible situation and made it *less* terrible.

 MVDV>> Doesn't look like it....
 
 > I think it does to the Iraqis who are beginning to admire us.

 MVDV> Admire you for what? For having the electricity on for only a couple
 MVDV> of hours a day? For not having claen water to drink? For all these
 MVDV> suicide attacks? 

Not for that, no.  For the benefits they now enjoy because of our 
liberation.

... Conclusion:  Where somebody got tired of thinking.

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