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Text 18766, 123 rader
Skriven 2005-12-16 10:19:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
Ärende: Sociopaths!
===================
 >> Since the Netherlands of today has nowhere *near* the power
 >> the Netherlands had a few centuries back, that doesn't scare me.

 MVDV>> The Netherlands has a LOT more power than it had 300 years back. But
 MVDV>> of course so have all the others and relatively speaking The
 MVDV>> Netherlands is not a powerful nation any more.

 > As you well know I meant power relative to the rest of the world.

How could I possibly know that? I can only go by what you write and it is not
what you wrote. Had I assumed you meant "relative to the rest of the world" I
would have been ASSuming and I prefer not debate on the basis of assumptions.

 MVDV>> So I can understand why you are not impressed. But as a
 MVDV>> rational man, it should make you think. Support for the
 MVDV>> USA is shrinking and like it or not: you need it.

 > The world needs us far more than we need the world.

That is where you are mistaken. The USA can not survive as it is without
importing things. The rest of the world OTOH can survive very well without the
USA.

 > However it's best if everyone got along.

True. That is why it is imperative that the US change their foreign policy.

 MVDV>>> Also I can sell my dollar based investments. If everyone in
 MVDV>>> the world sells US stock, the US economy will collapse. You
 MVDV>>> may not realise it, but you *need* our goodwill...

 >> But if you (collectively) sell your US stock, the price will
 >> drop and I'll be able to pick some up at a bargain price.

 MVDV>> You will be buying old paper...

 > So?  It still represents ownership of part of some company.

Which is worthless if the US economy collapses.

 >> After all, the profits of those companies will still roll and the
 >> shareholders will benefit.

 MVDV>> That is where you err. When everyone outside the US sells their dollar
 MVDV>> stuff, not just the price in Dollars will drop, but the Dollar itself
 MVDV>> will drop. And that will burst the bubble of the US economy.

 > Our economy is firmly-based -- *hardly* a "bubble" ...

Writing 3000 million IOU's every day is not solid based economy...

 MVDV>> There is no net profit.

 MVDV>> Every day the US has to loan 3000 million Dollars to make up
 MVDV>> for the deficit. Selling US stock means calling in those
 MVDV>> debts. And of course the US will be unable to do that.

 > Huh?  Selling stock merely means transferring some ownership
 > from European hands to American hands.

I think I confused "stock" with "bonds".

The USA is unable to buy all those bonds. If they did, they had no need to sell
them in the first place. So if everyone tries to sell his bonds, the bubble
will burst.

 MVDV>> So no one will give you any more loans, the Dollar will
 MVDV>> collapse and the oil producing countries will trade in
 MVDV>> Euro only. That means you will not be able to import the
 MVDV>> oil you so desperately need. You will run out of it in a
 MVDV>> couple of month and then your 4WD muscle car will be grounded.

 > That's merely your overly-pessimistic view of the U.S. economy

I don't think I am overly pessimistic.

 MVDV>> The only reason this hasn't happened yet is because it is not in the
 MVDV>> interest of anyone to have the US economy collapse.

 > Ours is the most healthy economy on earth.

Writing 3000 million IOU's every day is not healthy economy...

 > If it collapses financial depression will strike the entire world.

No doubt that it will have great negative effect for many people. That is the
reason why everyone is cooperating to keep the bubble intact for as long as
possible.

However if the US keeps overspending, it is not a question of "if" but "when"
the bubble will burst.

 >> BTW, the next time Germany invades France through Belgium and
 >> The Netherlands you can probably count on our help again ...

 MVDV>> That's not going to happen. The economies are too much
 MVDV>> intertwined to make that profitable. Today a war between
 MVDV>> France and Germany is as unlikley as war between North
 MVDV>> and South Carolina. Less likely I'd say.

 > I'm not speaking of war *today*, but in the future.

*If* that ever happens in the distant future, the USA will no longer be in a
position to do anything as by then the US empire will have collapsed.

 > Europeans seem to *love* war as much as *we* hate it.

Wrong. Europeans loath war. That is why we have gone through great efforts to
unite the countries and founded the EU.

 > Which is why we fight only defensive wars.

Nonsense. The (second) war in Iraq was not the first that was based on a lie.

The Tonkin incident that triggered the Vietnam war also was a lie. As was the
"baby incident" in Gulf war I. There is more, the list is long. The USA is not
a peaceful nation.


Cheers, Michiel

---
 * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)