Text 20443, 167 rader
Skriven 2005-12-30 09:09:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av CAROL SHENKENBERGER
Ärende: Lack of Gratitude
=========================
-=> Quoting Carol Shenkenberger to Frank Scheidt <=-
 
 CS> So far he's been polite with me.  A little frustrated, but polite ;-)
 
 FS> If that's *me* you refer to, I'm not frustrated at all.  
 FS> Furthermore I respond to people in the same way they respond to 
 FS> me.  You have been reasonable, hence *I* am reasonable.  

 CS> But you are frustrated with me as I do not agree with you.  I do not
 CS> think the  Europeans should still, so very long later, be al that
 CS> greatful over WWII or  even less sensically WWI and what the USA had
 CS> part in. 

What gives you the idea that I'm frustrated with you simply 
because you disagree with me?  It's a free country.  A *lot* of 
people disagree with me.  Does that mean the opposition is 
correct?  Hardly!  Majority may rule in decision-making but not 
in determining the truth.

 FS>  MvdV> Yes, I noticed. And I suppose you noticed the swipe about "just
 FS>  MvdV> operator who lets  other does the dirty work"....
 
 FS> I know *that*, at least, doesn't refer to me, as I don't recall 
 FS> having made any remarks about some "radio operator" ...

 CS> Something said, fellow didnt want to talk about more than just radio. 
 CS> Most  folks who have seen action do not really want to talk about it
 CS> that much,  unless with others who saw the same level and even then, if
 CS> they band together, 
 CS> they tend to talk about _other things_.
 
 CS> teaching a child 
 CS> to perpetuate 'hate' over long ago things is just wrong.
 FS>  
 > Canadians. My own knowledge of history is not that good.  Fact
 > is 'history' is a lighter subject I think in USA schools?
 FS>  
 FS> One wouldn't think so, judging from the strange idea of history 
 FS> the European posters here have ...

 CS> Why is it strange? It's not.  Its a different viewpoint from those who
 CS> were  there, based on what they saw locally.
 
That "different viewpoint" happens to be strongly biased toward 
fantasy ...

 FS>  MvdV> So wherever he learned of WWII history, it was not at school.
 
 CS> True, but he saw in real life, only that slice afforded to him.  He
 CS> would have  been with a big army unit so from his POV, there were
 CS> Americans all over the  place liberating things.  The US Press would
 CS> have concentrated on 'feel good'  stories as well (and they did, old
 CS> articles show this clearly).  The USA didnt  really have a 'Propaganda
 CS> Ministry' but the effect of the newspapers and other  things were
 CS> slanted to us looking good and for all to add to the war effort. 
 
 FS> You both are apparently under the impression I read papers at 
 FS> that time and didn't *realize* the inevitable propaganda 
 FS> contained therein.  I could read between the lines and combine 
 FS> that with what others told me.

 CS> Your posts until yesterday looked like you had been there.  

I at no time said that!  I said I was a soldier for 3-1/2 years 
during WWII but *never* said or even implied I was in the 
European Theater.

 CS> Dont try
 CS> the 'I'm  not a native english speaker' on ME.  Where did you serve? 
 
What would you do with that information?  As all military do I 
served where I was *ordered* to serve.  My brother served 
in the European theater in the 101st Airborne.  You somehow may 
have gotten his service mixed up with mine.  Also what's this "I'm 
not a native english speaker"????   Have I *ever* claimed I'm not 
a native English speaker???

 CS> My Dad was in  Europe.  He was enlisted (got college when he came back
 CS> though didnt get his  final degree til after Mom left him).  His skills
 CS> were that he was a very  hands-on tech with anything electrical, and he
 CS> spoke at least 2 languages, and  he had a sharp shooter award.  He was
 CS> also violently against guns all the time  that i knew him.
 
OK ... so?  I'll bet *anything* he was *ordered* to serve in the 
European Theater.

 CS> Still, we had our own 'Quizlings' (sp?  It's after some person
 CS> actually but  came to just mean 'collaborator') and there were many
 CS> 'investigations' of such.
 
 FS> Quisling, the infamous Norwegian who did his thing prior to 
 FS> America's entry into WWII.

 CS> Famous maybe but your wording indicates if US had joined earlier they
 CS> would  have done something to prevent that.  Bull hocky if that is what
 CS> you meant.

Not "Famous", INFAMOUS.  I hadn't considered that but you may 
have something there WRT what the US would have done to prevent 
the Nazi invasion of Norway.
 
 CS> He hasnt brought up how the USA took the Japanese Americans (most of
 CS> them  citizens of the 3rd or futher generation) and put them in
 CS> concentration camps  of our own.  
 
 FS> Huh?  I've beaten that one into the ground, maybe not *here* but 
 FS> in several other echoes.  I saw the immorality of *that* act when 
 FS> it was actually *happening*.  People on the West Coast feared a 
 FS> Japanese (note term) invasion -- it seems silly now, but it was a 

 CS> Excuse me but most of the folks here do not know about your 'other 
 CS> conversations' 

In that event they have no reason to criticize my opinions based 
on what "He hasn't brought up" ... 

 CS> and you keep making the USA look like angels with no
 CS> bad parts  ever.  

Apparently you haven't read my many complaints about the US's 
role in the Spanish-American War either ... [sigh] ...

 CS> Tone that down and you may find some genuine
 CS> conversations going on. 
 
 Toned down or not what I said is *still* true ...

 CS> That and the Germans may have gotten
 CS> their own ideas of Auswitz  from our own past history of Andersonville
 CS> (Civil war place, horrendous but the 
 CS> only thing they lacked was a Doctor Mendele and a gas chamber).
 
 FS> Andersonville, as I recall, was not an American prison but a 
 FS> prison in the Confederacy.  

 CS> See where I said Civil War?  It was as 'American' as anything else
 CS> unless you  are going to get strange and say the USA didnt include the
 CS> south until after  the civil war ended.

The Civil War involved the United States of America and the 
Confederate States of America ... also comparing Andersonville, a 
Confederate prison, with Auschwitz is absolutely absurd.  The 
latter was designed to murder as many Jews as possible while 
Andersonville was merely a cruelly-run prisoner-of-war camp.  
There was no attempt there to wipe out a human "race".

 CS> There is no defense for the Nazi camps but there is no defense for 
 CS> Andersonville either.

That's right.  And the American defeat of the Confederacy freed 
the American prisoners in Andersonville.
 
 FS> One person's "bashing" is another's "standing up for the *truth*" 
 FS> ... [sigh] ...

 CS> You are bashing Frank.  If that suits you, so be it, but dont hide it
 CS> under  some auspice of 'truth'.

Truth is truth.  Facts are facts.  Often they're unpleasant, but 
that's life.  Anyone who attacks America attacks *me*.  It's as 
simple as that.

... "People voting Democrat ... Give them a boot to the head!"

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