Text 20542, 176 rader
Skriven 2005-12-31 13:12:02 av Carol Shenkenberger (6:757/1)
Kommentar till text 20395 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Adverse Times
=====================
(I changed the topic since what we are chatting about has little to do with the
origional).
*** Quoting Michiel van der Vlist from a message to Carol Shenkenberger ***
MvdV> Publishing snippets would not violate any copyrights, but I still woul
MvdV> have to digitize the English version before I could cut and paste from
MvdV> it. The Dutch text would not be of much use to you. Well, I could only
MvdV> digitize the snippets, but I'd rather do the digitizing in one piece a
MvdV> otherwise I might end up doing unneeded extra work. So have a bit of p
MvdV> I think I will talk ny sister into giving permission eventually, but i
MvdV> takes a bit of time...
Ok, if it happens at some point, let us know and i'll try and order a copy.
MvdV> Tulip bulbs are very much like onions and yes they are edible. They do
MvdV> taste very good but they do have nutritional value.
MvdV> Something else they ate was sugar beet. And acorns.
Acorns would be natural to use over this side of the pond. It's still used in
lots of ways though seldom commercially found outside of 'health food stores'.
I seem to remember they have to be treated somehow to make them edible but it
isnt hard to do. Blanching possibly. Sugar beet of course would be a normal
thing though it's grown more often to just render sugar from.
MvdV>> much like to talk about it.
> Yes, Dad was like that.
MvdV> And unlike what Frank suggests, it has nothing to do with shame.
Correct. No relation to it, or at least, not in the sense he's been saying
about it. It's more like putting a bad time behind you and moving forward.
> In our early days, he used to still have problems with
> flashbacks. 2 weeks ago at our Xmas party (ship party,
> probably 500 people and kids there) he _had_ to leave.
MvdV> That's bad. Must be hard on the both of you..
Not so hard. Took me some time to get used to it but when you love someone,
you put up with all aspects of them, even the awkward ones.
> Just too many people and noise for him to handle. He
> *hates* the 4th of July with a passion and i used
> to have to take leave then to be sure he wasnt alone. He's
> better about that now but then, the fireworks are well away
> from where we live and just pretty so he grits his teeth and
> will take Charlotte downstairs to see them if i am not at
> home. I recal our first 4th of July. He literally hid under
> the bed and wouldnt come out for 2 hours.
MvdV> I don't know what to say to that. He must have been in some very nasty
MvdV> situations if it still gets to him after all these years. Anyway, you
MvdV> are among those who understand why most people who have been in a war
MvdV> situation prfere not to talk about it.
Yes. Oh and he doesnt hide anymore, that was close to 20 years ago, in Hawaii.
> I remember. I also remember some IDIOT posted a flame at you
> at just the wrong moment and a bunch of us jumped all over
> him. Some really ugly thing about your Dad and all that.
MvdV> Sadly enough, it didn't really hurt me. FidoNet is a wonderful medium
MvdV> but it can also be very cruel at times. It wasn't the first time someo
MvdV> exploited a personal loss to take a swipe at me. I have learned to wea
MvdV> my helmet and asbestos underware at all times in FidoNet. I also learn
MvdV> not to be too revealing about my moments of weakness in personal life.
MvdV> But someone was very nasty to me when nine years ago my wife died at a
MvdV> 47 of sudden cardiac arrest. That was in a Ducth echo btw.
Sad how some folks can be. I remember when you Dad died, I sent condolances
and laid off of some spat we were in at the time as it just wasnt appropriate
to continue.
> Berlin. Some memory fragment about the Russians also using it
> so maybe the 'russian quarter' but I dont have an address or
> anything like that.
MvdV> Should not be too hard to track. Ah, well what's the use, it's history
Possible, but I dont have much info to go on. There's no one left alive
related to that long ago settlement. It was a lot of money, but we were just
a small part of the folks with the claims so the split once it got to me,
wasnt that big.
MvdV> I think this "learn from history" is highly overrated. yes, there are
MvdV> lessons to be learned from the mistakes of others, but only up to a po
MvdV> After that comes the point that one has to learn from one's own mistak
True. BTW I wish it was presidential election year, I dont happen to favor the
policy of the one I have now.
MvdV> Frank was never in Europe during WWII.
Yes, now we can all see that. He certainly was talking as if he had been
though! It wasnt a 'second language issue'. His choice of words definately
indicated until now that he was 'talking first hand'. Perhaps he was in the
Pacific theater, or perhaps he was stateside support (nothing wrong with that
if he was stateside).
> He hasnt brought up how the USA took the Japanese Americans
> (most of them citizens of the 3rd or futher generation) and
> put them in concentration camps of our own. That and the
> Germans may have gotten their own ideas of Auswitz from our
> own past history of Andersonville (Civil war place, horrendous
> but the only thing they lacked was a Doctor Mendele and a gas
> chamber).
> If you havent run into Andersonville,
It's a very very bad memory. I've been there (Mom liked to take us on
vacations to historical places and old homes and the civil war was a favorite
one to check out). There are web links to history of it with some of the
pictures if you want to see. Basically it goes like this: The south was
starving already and they didnt have much to spare, so they pretty much
'didnt' but it wasnt as deliberate as some accounts made it out to be.
Now this may seem strange to you but my family (mom's side) was very rich until
the civil war. Then, they were splintered totally by it with some being
'North' and some 'South'. Mom says a great uncle of her's died in
Andersonville so she added that to the vacation route one summer (once i was
old enough to understand such things). Mom taught me lots of 'history' but
it's oriented to the parts she liked most, generally civil war and earlier.
She'd pull out real live letters written by various ancestors, let us read
them ourselves, then we'd go visit some place related to that person or
someplace they had been.
Mount Vernon, if you ever get a chance, is a fun place to go to. (Relation
there was only someone who mentioned it in a letter as a gracious house but
there is no blood relationship between me and any of the owners, just that a
few stayed there at various times).
MvdV> There never was much attention for American History at school. Not tha
MvdV> I remember anyway. Well, history never was my favorite and I have forg
MvdV> most of it, so I am an unreliable wittnes.
Thats ok, no special reason for your school house days to make much mention of
it as other than a passing comment or so. You wouldnt for example get a
year's worth of 'American History'. As I've moved about school systems, I
found it interesting that all of the states I was in had that as a requirement
to graduate except Virginia which had an alternative option of a year of
'Virginia State History' ;-).
MvdV> Every country has its dark pages in the history books. Mine not exclud
MvdV> I am not paricularly proud of the role of what may have been my ancest
MvdV> in the slave transports a couple of centuries ago. But then, that was
MvdV> even longer before I was born than WWII.
Yup. Ancient stuff there. It's too bad the USA ever got into that stuff and
we are still cleaning up the mess culturally that it left us. BTW, a misnomer
is that many folks who know only a little history of the USA have, is that the
civil war was over slavery. It wasnt really. It was more about economics and
things like that. The south was actually starting to move off of a slave
based economy and becoming a bit of an 'economic force' but wasnt far enough
changed to make a credible effort at a war economy with it's far more
industrialized Northern opponent.
There have been very interesting speculations that had the war broken out 30
years later, the south very well might have won independance.
Very little is taught about how the American civil war impacted those outside
of itself but it actually did. The cotton trade stoppage caused major
problems economically for England which is just one of the things I can recall
being taught. A British school therefore might teach a segment about the
American civil war because it had impacted them in their own history, like we
teach about the great Potato blight in Ireland because it brought us so many
immigrants.
xxcarol
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