Text 20800, 99 rader
Skriven 2006-01-03 09:52:38 av Peter Knapper (3:772/1.0)
  Kommentar till text 20662 av Frank Scheidt (1:123/140)
Ärende: [1/2] Lack of Gratitude
===============================
Hi Frank,

 PK> Oh the concepts really are there, and others see them too, but it
 PK> appears that you have 2 ways of viewing the same action. If it is  PK>
being done BY the USA, then the USA is saving the world, however 
 PK> if the same thing is being done TO the USA, then its being done 
 PK> by terrorists. 

 FS> But they're *not* "the same action".  The US is defending itself 
 FS> -- and the rest of the civilized world.  

The USA is defending itself by "attacking" a supposed enemy, EXACTLY the same
as the "Terrorists" are defending thjemselves by attacking the USA.

And consider that no part of the "civilised world" requested this action from
the USA, so dont try and drag the rest of us into your actions.


 PK> So are you now suggesting that the USA didnt really know what they
 PK> were getting into? That doesn't sound like a logical thinker to me...

 FS> Whom are you accusing of being illogical, me or the US leadership?

I would have expected any logical thinker to userstand the phrase "that the USA
didn't..." means exactly that, the USA government, and not yourself.


 PK> The method chosen to deliver the weapon has nothing to do with the
 PK> result of that delivery, the effect was the same, 
 PK> even if the scale was quite different. 

 FS> But you are comparing them to the suicide/bombing terrorists!

I was comparig one attack with another... that is all.


 PK> So when did the USA declare war on Iraq? They didn't! Who is acting
 PK> like the terrorist now? 

 FS> We *haven't* declared war on Iraq and I don't understand why we 
 FS> didn't.  We also didn't declare war on Afghanistan and we should 
 FS> have.  The Congress doesn't seem to be doing its job!  

Thank-you, I was wondering if this point was obvious to others..


 FS> Nevertheless the two wars were fully justified.

They can't be "wars" if they were undeclared...


 FS> There's no comparison between 
 FS> their noble act and the murderous activities of the WTC bombers 
 FS> who deliberately murdered innocent people during peacetime.

What peacetime? Your "terrorists" had already called their actions a "Holly
war" against the USA. That sounds like a declaration to me...


 PK> The "problem" here is that you are failing to acknowledge that there
 PK> is an EXACT relationship between the actions by the USA, and re-actions
 PK> by those they attacked. Denial is not surving you well Frank.

 FS> It is not *I* who is in denial.  For example you refer to the WTC 
 FS> bombing as being a "re-action".  Obviously it was not. 

But you are still very much in denial regarding the previous actions by the USA
as being a cause for 911. To be able to understand that you have to look at the
actions from the perspective of the "other side".


 FS> Hence you should reassess your thinking. 

Pot... kettle...

 FS> There was no fanaticism whatsoever in the bombing of Hiroshima -- 
 FS> merely a desire to save a million lives ...

 PK> By killing thousands of people. So where is the 
 PK> dfference with the WTC attack?  

 FS> The difference was that the WTC bombing was merely a murderous 
 FS> attack on a large group of people in *peacetime* -- people who 
 FS> were totally innocent.  

What peacetime? A "Holy war" had already been declared, several times over...

Until you can acknowledge all these events and look at them from a balanced
perspective, you will simply be uable to rationalise the USA actions that you
are attemping to rationalise. The very first part of that task is to
acknowledge that others have a right to live their lives they way they wish to
live them, without anyone (including the USA) trying to impose their will on
them.

Cheers............pk.


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