Text 22191, 158 rader
Skriven 2006-01-12 23:33:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av CAROL SHENKENBERGER
Ärende: Editor's censorship
===========================
-=> Quoting Carol Shenkenberger to Frank Scheidt <=-

 CS> Mono-cultural.  Most  Americans are mono-cultural and in this, you
 CS> probably are main-stream while i  think perhaps, I am not.
 FS>  
 FS> That's where you're mistaken.  This is a small town but it's a 
 FS> very cosmopolitan community.  People come here to work from all 
 FS> over the world as it's the headquarters of what is *now* the 
 FS> world's largest chemical company.  I worked as a research chemist 
 
 CS> Frank, they are living in American culture there.  *Totally*
 CS> different.  You  are on 'home turf'.  I do not know how to describe the
 CS> difference but perhaps  one of the folks who travel alot can help
 CS> there.  Read Ward's trip diary for a  smaller sample though the first
 CS> one was more obvious about it all than the most 
 CS> recent one where he steps on a rattler and pees on a bear cub.
 
 FS> As for my being on "home turf", that's true enough.  However 
 FS> there are advantages in that as I can be more open in my dealings 
 FS> with foreigners than can someone who is on *foreign* "turf".  

 CS> ???  I have no reason to hide at all with my local neighbors, nor have
 CS> i ever  in a foriegn port.  There is no shift in 'openess' at all.

OK, while your experience may well be more varied than mine, 
there *is* an advantage in talking with technically-trained 
foreigners -- we have a common basis in that background at least 
...
 CS> You have to actually live IN a foreign land to the one you came from,
 CS> to gain  the perspective.  The USA is so huge, few ever really feel or
 CS> experience that  which makes them largely mono-cultural.  Europeans,
 CS> living in smaller  countries, have a better cross-cultural
 CS> understanding for the most part. 

OK ... 

 CS> If a Japanese person in a crowd pushed you aside to get around you,
 CS> you'd  probably think they were rude.  Thats not the case though. 
 CS> 'Hand chopping in  air up and down' Summimasen (phonetic) 'please
 CS> excuse'.  In a crowed land, this 
 CS> is the polite behavior of one who is in a rush and never used unless
 CS> it's  really needed (like, catching a flight and running late etc).  

If for some reason I were to move to Japan for an extensive visit 
you can be certain I'd keep fairly quiet and *very* observant.  
If the visit were to be open-ended, possibly for years, I'd soon 
start to *try* to learn the language.

 CS> I
 CS> can give you  many examples of things you would consider 'rude' that
 CS> are not, or 'less  efficient' that are accepted here.  Paying bills is
 CS> the first one that hits  Americans as the system is very very
 CS> different.  Japanese do not use checks and 
 CS> they dont accept payments by mail for most things even if you want to
 CS> mail  cash (which they do not do).  You take the bill mailed to you to
 CS> the site and  pay in person, in cash.  A few things can be paid at
 CS> other places (electric at  the post office) but generally you have to
 CS> go to the site to pay your bills.

That *is* unexpected.  The Japanese are very advanced 
technologically.  I'd expect them to be paying bills on the 
Internet or something like that.
 
 CS> On the upside, some things are alot easier.  Kerosine to your doorstep

Hmmmmmm ... I've *never* wanted kerosene on my doorstep ... heh 
heh heh ...

 CS> and cash 
 CS> laid out in an envelope outside to pay for it (safe here to do).  If
 CS> you lose  something and the item has your name anyplace on it, it will
 CS> 90% of the time at 
 CS> least, come back.  You can safely forget your wallet full of cash in a
 CS> taxi and 
 CS> it will come back with the cash untouched.  

That's amazing!

 CS> You can leave your door
 CS> unlocked  and not have to worry about it while you are gone for 3
 CS> weeks.

Strange you should mention that.  My next-door neighbor recently 
told me something *they* had done.  They had left on a two-week 
vacation and had left their garage door open all the while.  When 
they got back they found nothing missing.  In general, though, 
that could be disastrous. 

However when I was a kid *no one* locked their doors and theft as 
a result was rare.  Now, however, that isn't the case.

 FS> However I'll bet I've met more foreigners who are able to 
 FS> communicate more articulately than the average which *you* meet.  

 CS> Which is why I have learned more at least in part.

Huh?  How can you learn more from one who does *not* communicate 
articulately? 
 FS>  
 FS> I'm sure I've dealt with people with all of those areas -- and 
 FS> more ... though I cannot recall anyone specifically from Guam 
 FS> or Darwin -- some from Australia though.  I recall it was a 
 FS> friend from the Philippines who taught me the proper way to 
 FS> pronounce "Tagalog" which was his native language.  I've known 
 FS> that for many years but had been pronouncing it incorrectly.

 CS> On my ship are at least 20 Chiefs who come from there.  The PI has 4
 CS> main  languages and that is only one of them.  Most interesting though
 CS> is 'Tugi' who  is American Samoan.  He gets confused sometimes on
 CS> women's issues and asks me  for advice on a regular manner because I am
 CS> straight up with him. 
 
FS> attitude usually reflects the attitude of the participants in any 
 FS> echo.  People here tend to be intolerant.
 
 CS> People here react fast to intolerance.  There's a difference there.

 FS> I hadn't noted ... their rapid intolerance comes through clearly, 
 FS> of course, but I've not seen them *react* to intolerance.

 CS> Umm, you are missing what is going on then.  You have a cultural clash
 CS> and  appear intolerant of any culture not your own.  The others here
 CS> are reacting to 
 CS> that which is why you get flamers (mostly).  Frank, there is nothing
 CS> horrible  in being mono-cultural as it would be natural with your
 CS> background, but trying  to tell others what their culture feels about
 CS> something just doesnt work. 

Evidently ... [sigh] ...

 FS> I'm *far* more flexible than you seem to think ...
 
 CS> Perhaps.  I think there is hope for you.
 
 FS> I'll not take that as a subtle insult ... heh heh heh ...

 CS> Smile, you can learn unlike some of the others here.  You have only
 CS> the level  of experience your life has provided you.  Ward who has
 CS> spent significant  portions of his life in other lands, has more
 CS> experience in cross-cultural  issues.  I obviously have the most with
 CS> Asia, and among the USA folks posting  here, Shannon is possibly the
 CS> one with the Europe experience though I gather he 
 CS> was living mostly on a ship at the time?

Each of us has different experience.  Each of us is "superior" in 
some respect, inferior in others.  As I've pointed out, I can be 
classified as an American Nationalist.  People who do things 
which can harm this nation draw my attention.  And that "harm" 
can be largely talk ... I suspect that you are so well-travelled 
that you tend to sympathize with the "outsiders" much more than I 
would.  I'd not trade my life, and my experiences for yours, and 
I'm certain you'd not want to trade with me.

... A fool with a tool is a well-equipped fool.

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