Text 23359, 213 rader
Skriven 2006-01-22 10:36:18 av Philip Lozier (1:267/169)
  Kommentar till text 23325 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Meno Blom's charges
===========================
 MvdV>>> They had no business contacting him in the first place.

 >> Excuse me... but the cop didn't make contact... in such cases
 >> it is done by a law enforcement officer hanging around in rooms

 MvdV> You can not just "hang around" in an electronic chat room. Just
 MvdV> hanging around means reading only and that way one can not make
 MvdV> contact. At some point one either has to send some sort of "beacon"
 MvdV> or respond to antother participant specifially.

"Hanging around" carrying on -normal conversation-... maybe a language barrier
but the native speakers understood what I meant I'm sure... maybe across
language barriers it isn;t obvious, so there's the clarification.

 MvdV> [ US "rules of engagement deleted as they do not apply, MB was in
 MvdV> The Netherlands ]

Netherland's thought of protection just because they are in their own country
discarded, as the person he solicited was not in his own country.  The cop was
in the USA... Netherlands rules don't apply to him.

 MvdV> At some point the "girl" must have written something to the effect
 MvdV> of "Hi I am dana".

Yea... normal hanging around in a room.

 MvdV> And she must have told him she was fourteen year
 MvdV> old.

Maybe, maybe not, maybe there was a profile associated with the scrren name
where that could be obtained, more likely -HE- asked how old she was.

 MvdV> Either spontaneously or in respond of a question. Either way,
 MvdV> The "girl" "made contact".

No... The "girl" was just in the chatroom... basicly in contact with -anyone-
there and not just Blom.  Blom had to innitiate a certain tone to the
conversation, and lead it down a certain path, otherwise there would have been
no problem for him. The protections of the laws of his own country go out the
window when he starts dealing with someone outside his own country.

 >> Believe me... with the way criminals -do- walk on
 >> technicalities (it happens alot more than people even realize)
 >> the cops make damn sure their I's are dotted and their T's
 >> crossed in cases like this.

 >> Rest assured that the cop didn't just see this guy, decide he
 >> was going to target him, and say "hey mister, I'm 14, I love
 >> Dutch guys, and I love sex... wanna meet?"

 MvdV> Your assurance means nothing. It take two to make contact. The cop
 MvdV> had no business sticking his nose into MB's bussienes, as he did
 MvdV> nothing that is illegal here.

Wrong.  In a normal chatroom the conversation goes on amongst everyone... at
some point BLOM had to make the request to "take it private", as the "rules of
engagement" as you put it don't allow the cop to do that... otherwise there
might be a dismissal for entrapment ;>  The perp has to lead the way on his
own.

 MvdV>>> MB was not in your country when he did what you describe.

 >> Wasn't he?

 MvdV> No, he wasn't in the USA when the cop established contact.


Excuse me... the cop didn't establish contact.  The second Blom wrote wrote a
message to the "girl" is when he established contact with "her".

 >> Hey... you give me the combination to the safe at your job, I
 >> use it and take the money, because you said it's okay, even
 >> though you do not have the authority too make that decision,
 >> then I didn't rob the safe?

 MvdV> We have been through that before. In regard to shoplifting I
 MvdV> believe. The answer is: that depends on what you are going to do
 MvdV> with the money.

...you won't go away empty handed though... we're giving you a years supply of
Rice-a-Roni!

 >>>> and when it entered this country it became a crime... now...

 MvdV>>> Ah, so HERE we finally have the admission you ARE trying to impose
 MvdV>>> your laws and morals outside your country.

 >> No... to hell with anything to do with what happened in the
 >> Netherlands... like I said, if he stayed in the Netherlands he
 >> would have been fine...

 MvdV> And had the cop stayed within his jurisdiction he would have been
 MvdV> fine.

He was in his jurisdiction... he was in the USA just like Blom was in the
Netherlands... Just as you claim Blom was protected by the laws of the
Netherlands, so was the cop justified in acting under the guidelines of the
laws of his jurisdiction as that's where he was.

 MvdV>>> You can twist it around any way you like, but what he did was not
 MvdV>>> against the law here.

Read above... that's not twisting it around... that's just pointing out the
obvious facts that you refuse to acknowledge.  Why is Blom protected by the
laws of the Netherlands because that's where -is-, but the cop not protected by
USA law because that's where -the cop- is?  And, a real 14 year old girl would
not be protected by the laws where -she- is at, just like you claim BlomBag is?
 What makes him so special and protected over everybody else?

 >> But what he did HERE was against the law HERE... he should
 >> have stayed in the Netherlands.

 MvdV> He most likely would, had the cop not invited him.

If the cop told him to jump off a bridge, should he do that too knowing he'd
likely die?  So he was invited... he knew the invitation was for illegal
activity here... was it wise for him to come knowing he might get arrested if
caught?  Sounds like he took a chance, made his own decision to come, gambled,
and lost.  Those are the breaks... tough shit... stay away from our children.

 MvdV>>>>> Hence law enforcement (US or other) had no business
 MvdV>>>>> sticking their nose in.

 >> Of course they did... when somebody is attempting to commit a
 >> crime against a minor citizen of our country, of course they did.

 MvdV> No because there was no crime.

Just like you say there was no crime commited by Blom because he was in his own
coutry, there was a crime commited here because the cop was in his own country
under his own jurisdiction... as soon as Blom came into
the USA he fell under that jurisdiction.  Those are the breaksa... tough
shit... stay away from our children.

 MvdV>>> They had no business sticking their nose in in the first place.

 >> Of course they did... he was trying to have sex with a 14 year
 >> old girl in our country.

 MvdV> 1) Not against the law here.

Again... against the law here.

 MvdV> 2) Only *after* your cop stuck his nose in.

Which in the manner done is not against the law... HERE.

 MvdV> So your cop had no business sticking his nose in.

 MvdV>>> Bullshit. It was your cop that set the chain of events in motion.
 MvdV>>> Had that cop respected our laws and stayed out of it, nothing would
 MvdV>>> have happened.

 >> Absolutely not... the cop merely posed as a 14 year old girl...

 MvdV> Entrapement. He had no right to do that to a Dutch citizen.

Wrong... no entrapment whatsoever.  And, Blom had no right to attempt
to fuck a 14 year old Amercian citizen.

 MvdV>>> Which would not have happened had your cop not violated our
 MvdV>>> law to begin with.

 >> Irrelevant...

 MvdV> Very relevant. Actually this is the main issue.

Wrong... irrelevant... just as Blom was protected by -his- laws while in his
own country, the cop was protected by -his- laws in the commision of his duties
while here.

 >> had it not been a cop, and it was a real 14 year
 >> old girl, would that be okay???

 MvdV> You still don't get it do you?

No... I get it fine... you don't get it at all, and likely never will. Teh same
as you claim applied to Blom regarding laws applied to those involved here...
once Blom was stupid enough to come here, he lost all the protections of his
own laws.

 MvdV> Yet it is SO simple. Our law does not forbid it. So, yes from the
 MvdV> legal point of view, the only possible answer is: yes it is ok.

I said if -it had- been a real 14 year old girl... context implies same
circumstances... a 14 year old girl in -this- country... do you still think it
would have been okay... for Blom to travel here to meet a 14 year old girl and
have sex?

 MvdV> All the other issues are no concern of the law and hence they have
 MvdV> no business getting involved.

 MvdV> You may not like it, but that it the law here.

But the interaction did not occur just -there-...

You just don;t get it, do you?

Phil




 MvdV> Now why is that so hard to understand?


 MvdV> Cheers, Michiel.

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