Text 25840, 187 rader
Skriven 2006-02-22 23:57:00 av Dale Shipp (1:261/1466.0)
Kommentar till text 25812 av Michiel Van Der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Re: Elist mergers
=========================
-=> On 02-22-06 10:58, Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-
-=> spoke to Dale Shipp about Elist mergers <=-
>> Needed or not, it is a useful tool.
MVDV>> Your opinion and YOUR choice to use it.
That is true, and I and many other moderators choose to use it,
including an echo of which you are a moderator. If you choose not to
use it for other echos of yours, then so be it. The result is that
information about those echos is not distributed as widely as it might
have been.
> My choice and the choice of more than 400 other moderators
> who choose to enter information about their echos there
MVDV> We don't really know if they all made a free choice do we?
They had multiple choices -- they could have sent their listings to
Peter, they could have sent their listings to Thom (as most did),
they could have sent their listings to others who were offering the
service, or they could have not bothered to send a listing to anyone.
MVDV> After all you guys have been telling us for years that
MVDV> unlisted echos would be taken off the Z1 backbone. There is
MVDV> a disticnt possibility that many moderators only listed
MVDV> their echos because they felt they had no choice.
While I will easily grant you that they felt that they had to list
their echos onto whatever Elist the distribution systems recognized,
that was not Thom's list until *AFTER* a majority of moderators sent
their listings to him and the distribution systems recognized that
fact, and thus decided to use him as the Elist keeper they would use.
> If you are that much in need of instant gratification then
> you can do a direct query of the Elist data base
MVDV> That only works if there IS a central elist data base.
MVDV> Which would not be the case with synchronised zonal lists.
> out in most cases that it has not changed since the last monthly
> publication of the Elist.
> Personally, I think that such a desire is overkill.
MVDV> I don't. If I have to wait a minth to get to know who the
MVDV> moderator of an echo is, I may as well wait for the monthly
MVDV> rules.
See above. If you really want to know what is on the database *now*,
then send it a query to ask it.
MVDV>> NOW, not a month ago. An out of date list is totally
MVDV>> useless. 48 hour is the maximum I would consider acceptable.
> You are posturing for effect, and your stated expectation is
> unreasonable.
MVDV> Then let me tell you that the one and only instance where I
MVDV> thought I migh have some use for the echolist, I was put on
MVDV> the wrong foor because the informatio was out of date
MVDV> without me being aware of it.
If you are talking about the Elist that Thom maintains, then you could
have gotten the information which was correct as of the day you wanted
it.
> Do you insist that the telephone company send you an
> updated phone book every week?
MVDV> No, but I do require that they offer an alternative to get
MVDV> up to date information. And they do, I can call the
As does the Elist that Thom maintains.
MVDV> directory information service. And since a decade or so I
MVDV> can consult the on-line telephone directory.
As you could do with the Elist that Thom maintains.
MVDV> Peter Witschi offered the service of requesting an up to date list.
As does Thom.
> That nodelist segment does not change more than once per week with
> respect to the nodes not in their net.
MVDV> Wrong. My NC f.e. updates the nodelist whenever a change is
MVDV> made and that actual up to date segment is available by
MVDV> file request.
Read what I said above again. Your NC does not receive the updated
listings for my net, region or zone until they are distributed weekly
by my ZC.
MVDV> But you are forgetting something. Peter did not "abandon" the list. He
MVDV> *resigned* from the position of Z2 e-list keeper. The Z2
Resign or abandon, whichever you want to call it the result was the
same.
MVDV> community could have appointed or elected a successor.
As the policy you keep saying is in effect in zone 2 states should
have been done.
MVDV> You can send encrypted mail to me by dropping it off at
MVDV> 1:123/500. he will forward it to me.
Since he is my uplink, that should be easy -- if we had an agreed upon
method for encryption.
> Prove it -- send me an encrypted netmail. I want to see the evidence.
MVDV> What is needed is that you can SEND encryoted mail. You can
MVDV> send encrypted mal to me. See above.
For one who keeps insisting that you have to be shown direct evidence
before you will believe anything, you certainly seem reluctant to
provide any to support the positions that you take. It seems to be
your attitude that everyone has to prove themselves to you, but has to
take what you say on faith.
MVDV> Anyway, coming to think of it: to update the echolist in a secure way,
MVDV> it is not needed to encrypt the entire message. All that is
MVDV> needed is to encrypt the password. As the password already
MVDV> is a meaningless string, it would merely mean that it would
MVDV> be replaced y another string just as meaningless with the
MVDV> difference that the "password" that is now in the masssage
MVDV> is no longer sufficient to get the update processed. It
MVDV> also requires the key, which is only known to the moderator
MVDV> and the echolist keeper. If a router does not object to a
MVDV> message containing a password of "XyZzy", why would he
MVDV> object if it was replaced by "A4fJq5"?
So you would have the Elist Keeper maintain a separate key for every
moderator who wants to send him a listing? Rather clumsy, and an
extra burden.
MVDV> My point is that there are many solutions for the cost problem, But
MVDV> you do not want to hear it, you find excuses for rejection. All
I am not looking for excuses. I gave you the reasons that existed
back then.
MVDV> you want to hear about is a solution where the list is NOT
MVDV> in the hands of a Z2 e-list keeper.
I had no objection to there being an Elist keeper in zone 2.
>> Never mind, telling me how you would encrypt it in a manner that
>> would allow me to decrypt it.
MVDV>> There are programmes for that. Not more difficuolt to set
MVDV>> up than the stuff needed to maintain an e-list.
So you are attempting to tell me that setting up a secure encryption
and key distribution system is not difficult? Trust me, even experts
get it wrong from time to time.
> So tell us all how you would set it up. Don't duck the question.
MVDV> I am not going to write a tutorial on PGP. That would be
Don't need a tutorial on PGP. Send me your PGP key and I'll try to
see if my uplink will accept an encrypted netmail for you. You can
use netmail or you can use the email address below.
MVDV> reinventing the wheel. The information is freely available
MVDV> at various places. PGP is freeware. I can make it
MVDV> requestable from my system too if you want.
No need. I've had it on my home computers for years, and known about
and understood the algorithms it uses for decades.
Dale Shipp
fido_261_1466 (at) comcast (dot) net
(1:261/1466)
... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 23:20:08, 22 Feb 2006
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