Text 25863, 93 rader
Skriven 2006-02-23 10:27:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 25835 av Philip Lozier (1:267/169)
Ärende: Elist
=============
Hello Phil,

 MvdV>> Yes, luckily we have freed ourselves of that stranglehold.
 MvdV>> Ironically what freed us is also what caused the loss of the
 MvdV>> vast majority of our users: affordable InterNet access.

 > Question... aside from the Russian portion of Z2, is FidoNet
 > increasing there at all?

It has been steadily declining since 1995 or so. Apart from an occasional
hiccup.

 > Well... it is here in R13, and also in my net.

Excellent.

 > Aside from the nodes who came in from net merging here, there
 > are 3 spanking new nodes, and just got a request from another
 > new spanking new one today... all within 2 weeks of cleaning
 > things up.

I congratulate you on cleaning things up. How many were removed from the
nodelist as dead wood?

 > Might be of interest to note that one new node is also a former
 > Z2 Russian node who relocated to Long Island, NY recently.

So - like the Russian node who moved to our net - that's not growth, that
merely shifting from one place to anoter.

 > The internet -never- killed FidoNet... I denied it years ago,
 > and I deny it now.

Then you are kidding yourself. I have been the point coordinator in R28 since
1997. Points have  been the main contributors to echomail here in R28 BTW. I
have kept a close look on the statistics as I maintain the point list. Which
has become kind of a joke as there are just a handfull left at best. We used to
have 5600+ registered points here in The Netherlands. I have seen the decline.
Sometimes I come across ex-points in other fora. When I ask them why they left
Fidonet the response /always/ is that they lost interest because the InterNet
had so much more to offer. There may have been a few who left for other
reasons, but I heve yet to meet one.

Anyone denying that the main reason for the decline of FidoNet is the users
leaving for the greener pastures of the InterNet is just fooling himself.

 > The breakdown in proper structure did,

You are mixing up cause and effect. The breakdown is an effect of the decline,
or more precise of the not proper handling if the decline.

 > and the idea of FidoNet trying to compete with the internet
 > rather than -properly- integrate with it without losing what
 > made it unique in the first place did.

If you think intergrating it with The InterNet without losing its identity, you
are making yourself guilty of wishful thinking. That's like letting the bikers
in to save the horse club. You may sill have a club in three years, but it
won't be a horse club any more.

 > Also of interest... NONE of the new nodes are embracing
 > internet methods other than packet transfer either... all BBS
 > types, or FTN editors with actual -real- mailers... NO NNTP or
 > other gate type methods... REAL FidoNet nodes.

 > A basic restoration on a regional level to what FidoNet -was-
 > is sparking a very noticable effect... and rather quickly too.

Once more congratulations on cleaning op the mess.

But I think you are kidding yourself. We have been hearing this "we had new
nodes in our net" stories for years now. All over the place nets and regions
have claimed growth wich never made it into the long term statistics. Sure,
there were a few new nodes. Only to be compensated by a greater loss next
month. These claims of growth were never substantiated inthe long run.

And where are the users? Keep in mind that a BBS without users is a train
without passengers or cargo.

 > The internet did -what-?

It provided for more new shiny toys for what once were our users.

 > Naaaaaa... swelled heads did, and are still doing it, in some places.

Swelled heads wasn't what made the users leave for greener pastures. And the
heads didn't swell, it was the bodies that shrunk, which made the heads look
bigger.

Cheers, Michiel

--- Buy Danish
 * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)