Text 27121, 154 rader
Skriven 2006-04-15 16:39:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av PHILIP LOZIER
Ärende: [1/2] Canadian "Skills"
===============================
 >>> Part 1 of 2...

-=> Quoting Philip Lozier to Björn Forsström <=-

 RC>> Frank has a unique perspective, one most of the folk who have bellyached
 RC>> about the assertions about the USA dont have, he was alive in the 40's
 RC>> and
 RC>> I dont mean alive as a young child.
 
 BF> And at that age one could also expect more comprehension and that
 BF> the
 BF> world have moved on but if he want's to live in the 40's that's his
 BF> buisness
 BF> but why drag it in here?

 PL> That's a fairly dumb question, given the perspectives presented by
 PL> some in here.

"Dumb question"?  I'm certain he wouldn't look at it that way ... 
but then does a skunk recognize his own odor.  I don't know.
 
 RC>> Everyone else is of a different and far more recent generation.
 
 BF> That has nothing to do with it.
 BF> My grand father was 98 when he died and much more sense then this.

 PL> This above paragraph makes no sense to me in the discussion... it was
 PL> far to vague and gave no insight on what the greater sense may have
 PL> been. 

It's not an accident that he didn't respond further ...

 RC>> Think of how the perspectives change when you are from one side of the
 RC>> pond versus the other or if you were around at the time to remember and
 RC>> understand it.
 
 BF> I've talked to WWII survivors on the Greek islands who saw their
 BF> family being
 BF> shot by the Germans.

 PL> I talk to such civilian survivors on a regular basis... they're called
 PL> "my family".
 
 BF> Not even they are as bitter over the Germans
 BF> as Frank
 BF> is over Europe.

 PL> I don't think Frank is bitter over Germany... at least not as much as
 PL> he is over the younger (from his perspective) European generation who
 PL> all but denies that WWII ever existed other than some squabble they
 PL> could have talked out amongst themselves with no outside intervention
 PL> needed. 

I'm a first generation American.  Both of my parents were *born* 
in Germany.  Too bad these people cannot see the newsreels of the 
WWII era -- the massive destruction which only the US could stop.

 BF> They have accepted it and have moved on and Germans
 BF> are
 BF> now welcome there and have been for a long time.

 PL> I have many German freinds... one local node who takes great pride in
 PL> his German heritage, yet feels (even though not there, and of the later
 PL> generation) that what his countrymen did was a great embarrasment to
 PL> his people... and how easily duped his people were into following like
 PL> flies on shit bothers him. 

 RC>> From this side of the pond, looking eastward, many Americans saw a
 RC>> continental europe under control of the Nazi's, then look as event
 RC>> unfolded as Italy fell and then the events of June '44.
 
 BF> 60 years of thinking and understanding should have taken care of
 BF> that.

 PL> Taken care of what?  At the time the Americans came into the war,
 PL> pretty much everything of Europe was *GONE*, with the exception of the
 PL> stubborn Brits... the USA came in and turned the course of events as
 PL> they -were- unfolding, and basicly (did, wether it is denied by the 60
 PL> year later generation or not) DID save Europe's ass.

I'm not sure you understand them thoroughly -- they don't *want* 
to know what happened.  They haven't the foggiest notion of how 
the actions of the US saved them.  Not the *foggiest*!

 PL> To deny (as Europeans) that is exactly what happened would be like the
 PL> USA saying that slavery didn't exist here, and it was all a hoax or
 PL> something and that the slaves weren't really slaves as they were "paid"
 PL> or some other generations later denial...
 
Very good analogy ...

 RC>> Look at the wars that have transpired in your lifetime, regardless if
 RC>> your
 RC>> country was involved at all, nevertheless you as a member of your
 RC>> generation will see it one way, there is no telling if the generations
 RC>> that follow you will see it the same way as you did.. Know what I mean
 RC>> Verne?
 
 BF> As I said, if he wants to live in the 40's that's his problem, I
 BF> write 2006 now

 PL> And the 40's, to now, changes the facts (?), or is it that with enough
 PL> time gone by such statements are to be taken with regard that it
 PL> doesn't matter anymore and all should be forgotten because we (you
 PL> guys) don't need them damn yanks anymore... think about if after the
 PL> war, we just pulled out (us, the USA).  Scary thought?  It should be.
 PL> If we didn't remain, and help to rebuild the sectors of a war torn
 PL> Europe we were accorded, 60 years later you'd all still be pulling
 PL> yourselves out of the hole because the absolute devastation was that
 PL> bad... to boot, you'd likely be speaking some sort of dialect of
 PL> Russian right now because the vengence was so deep hearted in the
 PL> soviet union that they were going to take it all. WE (the USA) stopped
 PL> that!  What do you think the "cold war" was all about?  It was a direct
 PL> continuation of WWII between "allies" who really didn't like each
 PL> other, but joined for a common interest. ((I know we hate each other,
 PL> but lets kick this guys ass first and -then- go back to ahting each
 PL> other)) 

Hey!  They don't want to know any of they.  They're happy 
thinking *they* took care of their problems ...

 PL> Even Russia (despite the claims of the Russian winter thwarting the
 PL> Nazi effort) was saved.  Without an active front from the Atlantic
 PL> side, germany would -NOT- had to divert so many forces to make their
 PL> stance weaker on the Russian front.  The Germans would have withdrawn
 PL> (not retreated) and stockpiled for the spring, and then come back with
 PL> as much (if not more) devastation than they did when they first hit
 PL> Russia.  The devastation they caused to Russia was unprecidented.
 PL> Germany had them DESTROYED... COMPLETELY.  If not for the USA on the
 PL> other side of Germany, Russia never would have survived the spring
 PL> assualt at full force.
 
True ...

 BF> and in case you haven't noticed, USA is the most powerful country
 BF> in the world

 PL> Absoulutely... twice in our history we became "isolated"... both times
 PL> dragged into world wars that the friggin Europeans caused.  We learned
 PL> our lesson.  Take an active role, and never allow that to ahppen again.
 PL> If the babes can't act right, they need to be "babbysitted" and
 PL> spanked on their bottoms when they get out of line. Stay strong, and
 PL> the strongest, so when "baby asshole" gets out of line the ass spanking
 PL> will be headed. 

 BF> and can afford a war in Iraq that costs millions of $ every day so
 BF> I really don't
 BF> understand what he's whining about.

 >>> Continued to next message...

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