Text 2845, 143 rader
Skriven 2004-12-06 15:36:46 av mark lewis (1:3634/12)
   Kommentar till text 2797 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Z1B <> EP1
==================
 >>  MvdV> I am starting to have my doubts. I keep hearing that the backbone
 >>  MvdV> systems will not carry echo that are not in the list and that they
 >>  MvdV> will use the list as the ultimate authority as to who is moderator,
 >>  MvdV> but no one will tell me who these backbone systems are. Where is
 >>  MvdV> the list of systems that actually operate in such a rigid way?
 >>
 >> You're conversing with one individual (Matt) who was part
 >> of that scheme, when it was being used.

 MvdV> I note that you are using the past tense.

yes, matt has divested himself from those past linkages and relationships...

 >> There were two sysops who first implemented the SCHEME, bRUCE bODGER
 >> and John Sylvester.

 MvdV> I take it you mean "Souvestre"?

yerp...

 >> You might recognize node 1:396/1 as a major echomail
 >> mover during that time.

 MvdV> I am not good in remembering numbers, but I know John
 MvdV> Souvestre's system was one of the "Stars" and so played an
 MvdV> important role in the distribution. He was one of my uplink's
 MvdV> uplink. When John left FidoNet my uplink switched to Dale
 MvdV> Ross.

then you would also know or remember that there were other stars before
souvestre rose to starshub status... the use of the elist by the stars was
started before souvestre started his climb...

 >> That practice was continued up until Bodger and Sylvester
 >> left Fidonet. I believe it was Ross Cassell and Jeff Smith who
 >> took over the reins of the Z1B when they left (Matty boy joining
 >> in later under someone else's node number (1:106/1 wasn't
 >> always his node)).

 MvdV> Yes, I know. I remember the fuss when he appeared as cosysop
 MvdV> of 1:106/1 in FN_SYSOP.

 >> The Z1B grew to bigger porportions and lived a while longer
 >> until a political battle ensued about two years ago and the
 >> members of the Z1B split, Cassell deserting his fellow mail
 >> movers and joining with the NAB (which it looks like he's
 >> also abandoned most recently). The battle continued until
 >> the Z1B organization was desolved,

 MvdV> Right. So all this talk about "the Z1 backbone will not carry
 MvdV> echos not in the e-list" is just hot air.

no... you have to look at more than just "the" Z1 backbone... there are now
several backbones in Z1... before souvestre started his climb, there was only
one backbone in Z1 and that backbone feed /all/ zones in one manner or another
and thus their rules covered all as far as the echos carried by that original
backbone... elist rule included...

 >> even though all remaining Z1B members continue to move mail
 >> to this day.

 MvdV> And these remaining members are?

i'm not really sure who they are other than myself... davidC is barely active
but has responded to me in recent weeks... i know that several others are still
active in fidonet and the remaining ones have gone silent and their systems
appear to have been on autopilot for a year or more...

 >> Their version was rejected by the *Cs of this zone and thus,
 >> they implemented a 'Service Level Agreement'.  (you can find
 >> a partial quote from it at the end of this message)

 MvdV> Interesting.

 MvdV> But of course it has as little meaning for us outside Z1 than
 MvdV> EP1 has for you in Z1...

not if you expect your echo to be carried by those that require elisting of
echotags... and not if you are linked to a system on that backbone... the SLA
is there to state what the agreement for linkage and carriage covers... it
doesn't matter what zone you are in as the SLA is not zone specific but is
backbone specific... other backbones may have similar agreements or rules...
still other backbones may be a free-for-all where anything goes and they only
provide cartage of the traffic...

 >> I can't speak for the NAB, but I don't recall them ever
 >> having such a scheme in place. In fact, they carry echoes
 >> that are not in the echolist

 MvdV> And so do many others. So we must conclude that this "the
 MvdV> distribution of an echo in Z1 is in serious trouble if it is
 MvdV> no longer listed" is a myth. It may have been that way in the
 MvdV> past, but it is not so any more.

that depends on the backbone... there are several and they all have their own
rules and such...

 >> and they even carry echoes with no traffic in them.

 MvdV> Which is silly of course.

how so?

 >> Which was the reason why the Z1B issued echolist warnings
 >> to those echoes either not in the list or were about to expire.
 >> Why I don't know because carrying a dead echo has no traffic
 >> and therefore, doesn't put any burden on your mail
 >> tosser, accept to take up room in the configs.

 MvdV> Some configurations will only allow a limited number of tags.

then the software is inadequate for the job at that level...

 >> When tossing, that tag will pass through the tosser in a
 >> matter of nano-seconds when there's no traffic to toss.

 MvdV> The main problems with empty echos is that it puts the users
 MvdV> off.

ummm... the talk is about backbone and mail moving systems... not bbs' or
endnodes where users would have access to all those areas via message bases...

yes, bbs' should not carry those empty areas in public view... but then the
question arises of how is there to be traffic in an area if access to the area
is not allowed due to lack of traffic? can we say catch-22?

 MvdV> Anyway, thank you for debunking the myth that an echo must be
 MvdV> listed or else the distribution in Z1 will be seriously
 MvdV> impaired.

nothing has been debunked... there are systems that will not carry echotags not
listed in the elist... my system was one of those at one time until the
software i used to maintain that desire fell apart and i've not rebuilt it...
there are others that use a manual process for such removals...

now, ya wanna hear something really funny? as a member of the Z1B, the only
echos i've carried from the Z1B since rossC and bobJ left the Z1B were the two
or three Z1B management areas... since that time, all the traffic this Z1B
system has carried has been from the NAB ;)

)\/(ark

 * Origin: (1:3634/12)