Text 3034, 88 rader
Skriven 2004-12-08 11:43:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
   Kommentar till text 2984 av Philip Lozier (1:267/169)
Ärende: Science 1/2
===================
Hello Phil,

 >  MvdV> Also if a user makes a habit of that, the
 >  MvdV> moderator can issue premptive warnings to the sysops in
 >  MvdV> the region. I have seen that happen here...

 > That falls under the category of "the moderator doing their
 > job" properly...

Of course.

 > the SysOps of any BBS would be under no obligation to deny a
 > user access to an echo if the moderator didn't request directly
 > that such access be denied.  A smart mod -would- (under the
 > circumstances of those times) do as you described, however, that
 > is the - moderators- job to do so.

OTOH, when there is such a obnoxious hopping user the word usually quickly
spreads around and a smart sysop would refuse that hopping user access anyway,
as he knows that when he allows him to post in echomail, he /will/ get a
message from the moderator.

 >  MvdV> Now it is different. Hopping users can go all the way to
 >  MvdV> Australia to get away from a moderator. at no extra cost...

 >  MvdV> You said it yourself: if Jack tries a feed cut on you,
 >  MvdV> you would simply get a feed from someone who does not
 >  MvdV> recognise Jack as moderator.

 > Well... tommorow is Dec. 8th... we'll see what happens.  I
 > somehow don't feel it will be necessary, but if it is,

I don't profess to be able to predict what Jack will do, but it is my
experience as moderator that once you have crossed the line of evicting
someone, there is no way back. If the user does not cooperate you have no
choice but to go for a feed cut. If you don't you lose all credibility. Reason
why I have always been very reluctant in these matters. Here in Z2 there is of
course always the possibility that the user appeals to the ZEC or his delegate.

 > the feed for FIDONEWS has already been offered.

And it would not surprise me if it was Björn himself that did the offering...

So we are heading for an interesting situation. In the meantime it is Dec 8th,
Jack can be back any minute.

I am fairly sure that no one outside Z1 will honour a feed cut request by Jack,
so if he really wants to go through with this, he may end up with cutting (part
of) Z1 off from the rest of the world.

OTOH, if he does nothing, he will lose the respect of those that demanded
moderator action. The ones "making their point" may get more than they asked
for... ;-)

Either way, it will be interesting to watch.

 > What the true -proper- resolution to the dispute of
 > moderatorship of this echo would be is for Jack to publicly
 > declare himself as the "tag holder" of the echo for mail
 > moving purposes in Z1, but relinquishing all moderator
 > rights and authority to Bjorn. That way the Z1 (some of Z1)
 > requirement for an echo to be listed to be distributed is
 > satisfied, the EList is satisfied with the submission, and
 > moderator duties are placed properly where they belong.

There is just one little problem with this "solution". The rightful moderator
has chosen not to make use of the elist for this echo. Having it listed anyway
does not respect his wish.

 > ATT: The "notes" field. IMO this would be the proper
 > solution, and parties involved should agree upon it.

"Should"?  Well, maybe they will, but I do not see why they "should". This is a
Z2 echo and if you stand by your principle that an echo should be run according
to the rules and traditions of its zone of origin, then I do not see why Björn
has any obligation to agree to such an arrangement.

 > A any particular party not agreeing on it would definately
 > prove an agenda other than an honorable one.

The honourable thing would be for the Z1 community to acknowledge that this is
a Z2 echo with a Z2 moderator and that they should refrain from telling what
"should" and what "should" not.

Cheers, Michiel

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