Text 36325, 95 rader
Skriven 2006-08-09 17:44:48 av Carol Shenkenberger (6:757/1)
  Kommentar till text 36239 av Björn Forsström (2:203/614.61)
Ärende: Re: Massive European Guilt!
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*** Quoting Björn Forsström from a message to Carol Shenkenberger ***

BF>> I have and as you said, it took a while for it to arrive here and for
BF>> deserve at least some respect.
BF>> The sad part is that you are only number 2 to dissociate from statemen
BF>> that.

 CS> Echomail delay perhaps.

BF> Most likly.

Seems to be.  I note Frank is not posting for once.

 CS> in 'support' was Roy who even said 'celebrate' was wrong wording.  Every
 CS> other American and Canadian, is telling Frank to 'pack sand' over that
 CS> one.

BF> That wasn't unexpected and nor was the lame excuse from Dan.

What was lame about Dan?  As far as i could tell, he replied to Frank too and
fairly fast.  See, many of us just title scan past Frank now.  I certainly did
or am missing mail (suspect I title scanned past) so caught the note on the
quoting of another of Frank's origional.

 CS> The very idea that Americans would dance in the streets on the day we
 CS> dropped the bombs on Japan, is anathema to us.

BF> As is the 9/11 to us.

Yes.  I think there was a mild confusion on that post but it also spawned a
chance to ask what seemed relevant to that day to a European and a that came
back with a reminder that I hard forgotten.  Day/Month/Year is Europe,
Month/Day/Year is generally USA.  Military BTW is Year/Month/Day.

The falling of the Berlin Wall, is worth celebrating and in European dating,
would be rendered as '9/11/89' (if you added the year).

 CS> War crimes happen.  The Japanese were not innocent of the same but there
 CS> shere death toll tells it's own story.  You just dont celebrate that.

BF> I know. I've read some of what they did in China and sometimes they we
BF> worse then the nazis and no one celebrates that either.

Try Cambodia, Pol Pot I think was the name?  That guy was more insane than
Hitler.


 CS> The relationship now, 60 years later, is 'Gomen Nasai' but a paid

BF> Gomen Nasai, is that something like forgotten and forgiven?

Umm, it will be hard for me to describe.  Partly that is because I turned out
to be one of the folks with little to no skills at learning Japanese (yet if
you see me elsewhere, you'll find that hampers me not at all in any land as i
learned how to get around it many ways).  Partly because I think the literal
translation isnt going to match quite up.

If you look up 'sorry' in an english/japan dictionary, it may show as a 3rd set
of words used.

It is in my version of understanding, an abject apology for doing wrong to
another person due to one's own actions.  I think it's also related to
slitting your belly open with a sword as a way of 'paying' but in today's use
it's accompanied with flowers and monetary assistance to recompense.

In use, if you have a car accident and the other is harmed much, 'gomen nasai'
is when you visit them in the hosptial with flowers and upwards of 1,000$
which is money not mandated by anything other than your own soul.  It is
outside any court but the person (Japanese) may decide to not take you to
court if you do it right and are sincere.  If they do take you to court, that
money is not counted as part of the payment.  There are other relations having
nothing to do with a car accident, but that one is simpler to explain.

Asia is *not* a European (western) culture.  The very basics can be quite other
than you would expect and the laws are often very different.  We have all
sorts of fun discussions about that 'Blomm' (right name?) fellow but we all
here share an essentially 'Western mentality' and we are quibbling details. 
Asia would either ignore that person, or sentance him to death depending on
the location.  Most, would admonish the PARENT of the 'child' for failure to
be a good parent (had there actually been a little girl involved).

In Japan, if you came there to have sex with a person you thought was of age
(at least for that land) and found out the person was not of age, you would
owe 'Gomen Nasai' for your mistake and if sincere, nothing more would result
as long as there was no rape.  Sorta like 'opps, here's 1,000$ and my sincere
apology, once i saw her I didnt touch.  She;s an honorable daughter and I made
a mistake'.  Oh, Japanese are like all asians.  The Victorian era never hit
here and christian ethics on sex are rare to encounter.

I'm sorry (sumimasan) but i cant explain it better.  If I were fluent in
Japanese perhaps I could, but I'd have to use Japanese to say it!
                                       xxcarol

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