Text 36330, 116 rader
Skriven 2006-08-09 18:56:49 av Carol Shenkenberger (6:757/1)
  Kommentar till text 36263 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
Ärende: Re: CELEBRATION!
========================
*** Quoting Roy Witt from a message to Carol Shenkenberger ***

RW> to the idea because you're among those who were the victims and you ha
RW> always had a problem with Frank's opinions.

This is true probably.  Frank irks me with his insensitivity in ways that you
do not.  Franks' seems genuine, yours seems 'tounge in cheek' most of the
time.

RW> We only had the atomic bomb for less than a month when it was used for
RW> two purposes, to demonstrate it to the world as a deterent for further
RW> conflict, as the Russkies would have done, had there not been that
RW> deterent. The other was to try and save as many allied, and Japanese,
RW> lives as possible. An invasion of Japan would have been more desastero
RW> than those two bombs, for both sides.

Probably true.  I've seen movies of Truman where saving even the Japanese were
in mind as a portion of the decision.  I do not know if that is true, but I'd
like to think so.  To not 'dance' but to understand the need of the time.

RW> Let's let Frank make an explanation of his post before passing judemen

I'm not always forgiving but if i see his reply, I will at least read it.


RW> On the first mission, Hiroshima was the primary target, Kokura was the
RW> secondary choice and Nagasaki the third.

Humm. I'm going to have to do a little search.  I've been told here, the
shipyard was a main target.  Far more 'military' and Kokura?

RW> backup. Niigata was too far away to be a practical third choice. Becau
RW> Nagasaki was on the opposite side of a Kyushu mountain range from Koku
RW> military planners thought even if one city was fogged in, the other wa
RW> likely to be clear. They were correct in that assumption, as history b
RW> out.

Grin, you just described Sasebo best as i can tell from a map and the view from
my window.

 CS> much later, perhaps 6 months later, of his personal history and that
 CS> he was 7 years old when it happened).

RW> Which probably led to his demeanor at the news of 9/11...he knows what
RW> it's like to lose so many loved one all at the same time.

Yes.  I never claimd to be a brain child.  Even I could see that.  On 9/11 the
local response was immediate and very sincere.  I was stuck on the ship and
Don was out at our 'cho' (apartment/neighborhood).  As the food ran down, he
took our spare change in yen (base was closed, no access to a bank and they do
not use checks here) and they just filled his cart taking 10yen for a 500yen
fish and so on and refusing more.  Just 'pretending it was excess' and
stuffing Charlotte (in tow, she was 7 then) at every place with anything they
had handy.

My experience with that was vicarious but all of us report the same.  Me?  I
was stuck on the ship for a week or 2.  Worried about my family and at that
time, Don couldnt email me.

'Gomen Nasai' kicked in and all of us were excused rent if we had not yet paid
up for the following month.  (we made it up when we could get to the bank
again but if we had not, we were excused').

As you can guess, my personal 9/11 experience was not the same as the USA
people had there.  When I think back on it, all I can say is 'wow' about how
my local area supported me and my family.

(BTW, yet another use of Gomen Nasai there, this one may be a local and did not
imply personal guilt, but a sorrow to be held and a desire to help).


 CS> If you dislike that I feel this way, well, we can 'just not bring it
 CS> up again' because on this one, you'll find out i'm more stubborn than
 CS> a mule and will not change.  I may change on many things, but this
 CS> isnt one of them.  I will never 'celebrate' the day we nuked Japan.

RW> I never asked you to, all I suggested was to look at it from a differe
RW> viewpoint, put yourself in the shoes of those who experienced WW2 firs
RW> hand, or at least lived thru that time and have a different life
RW> experience than you do.

Ok, I'll keep it in mind.  But I think this many years later he'd have lost
that 'first response before they knew full impact' and be more (humm right
word escapes me) 'sane' in expression as well as feeling.

 CS> My father fought in WWII.  Radio operator, Europe.  Born just as they
 CS> arrived here of first immigrant parents.  Fluent german.  I didnt get
 CS> much time with him as my parents split when I was 2 but the few
 CS> visits did talk of that time a little bit.  His comment was 'the
 CS> worst I did was shoot a person who had a gun aimed at me, never
 CS> dropped any bombs I have to have nightmares about now'. I know, he
 CS> meant that set. I just know...


RW> My father made it in time to spend 13 months in the aftermath of the w
RW> The Germans surrendered while he was on board a troop ship in the
RW> Atlantic. I never figured him for a passionate man, but he told storie
RW> the suffereing of the people and the ways he helped them, in spite of
RW> orders. He was a guard at a German supply dump, where there was all ki
RW> of food and clothing that was denied the public. He left the gates
RW> unlocked and turned his back as those in need entered and helped
RW> themselves.

Good man.  My father was there.  He told me he fought in the battle of the
buldge (damn, another word I cant spell!).  Came in around 1943 I think he
said?  He's gone now, so I cant ask him.  Lord rest him, but he died in 2002
and his mind was 'dimmer dark' from 1998 so suffered little.  A good man
though from all I ever knew of him.

Smile, perhaps thats a pretty good way to go.  To have a child of yours who
parted due to things beyond your control at age 2, still recall you as a good
man.
                                       xxcarol

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