Text 36778, 80 rader
Skriven 2006-08-15 16:24:00 av LEE LOFASO (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av BOB ACKLEY
Ärende: CELEBRATION!
====================
Yo Bob!

>HN>Sure it might have saved many allied troops when they had
>HN>to invade Japan, but that cannot be an argument for
>HN>celebrating the nukes in WWII.

>BK>While there is no reason to celebrate the deaths of so many, it
>BK>probably saved a lot of Japanese troops and civilians also.

>LL>Face it, Bob.  Harry S Truman was a mass murderer.  The Japanese high
>LL>command had offered to surrender a full month *before* the atomic
>LL>bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

BA>Actually, the Japanese government had asked Stalin to intercede with
BA>the all to open negotiations to end the war.  Stalin did *not* pass
BA>the information along to the US and Britain.  Since our codebreakers
BA>did not get around to decrypt and translating the relevant diplomatic
BA>message traffic until about nine months *after* Japan had
BA>surrendered, Truman didn't know about the offer when he ordered
BA>the bombs used.

I do not buy the argument that Truman did not know about the Japanese
offer of a conditional surrender.  Sounds like a whitewash, more than
anything else.  Especially since the information about the conditional
surrender having been declassified long after the war ended.
Furthermore, the Japanese and the Russians have never been the very best
of friends, especially since Russia continues to occupy the Kirile
Islands.

>LL>Now please explain your logic (if
>LL>there is any) as to how those atomic bombings "probably saved a lot
>LL>of Japanese troops and civilians also." After all, hundreds of
>LL>thousands of innocent men, women and children died as a result.  And
>LL>many more died later, in great pain, from radiation poisoning.

BA>LeMay's firebombing campaign against Japanese cities killed more
BA>Japanese than both of the nukes combined - burned, baked or boiled
BA>them (his terms).

All the more reason NOT to atomize Japanese population centers.

BA>Insofar as the saving of Japanese lives is concerned, it was believed
BA>at the time that the Japanese people would resist invasion to the
BA>death (on Saipan hundr of Japanese civilians jumped off cliffs to
BA>their deaths rather than surrender t the American troops; on Attu,
BA>when the Japanese troops ran out of ammunition the made a banzai
BA>charge against the American forces armed only with rocks and
BA>bayonets, the same thing happened on Guadalcanal).  The Japanese use
BA>of suic charges was not limited to the Army, the naval SHO-1 plan for
BA>the Philippine and the sending of the battleship Yamato and a few
BA>escorts on a one way trip to Okinawa (she didn't even get close)
BA>being two examples and the concept of using minimally trained pilots
BA>to fly aircraft into enemy ships (kamikazes) being another.  In point
BA>of fact civilians in Japan were at least minimally trained in the use
BA>of pikes and lances against invaders. Given the observed behavior our
BA>forces assumed - correctly IMO - that a ground invasion of the
BA>Japanese home islands would ha resulted in a bloodbath unprecedented
BA>in scale, and consisting mostly, of course, of Japanese, although the
BA>planners assumed there would also be hundreds of thousands of
BA>American casualties.

There would have been no bloodbath had Japan been allowed to surrender
before the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

American propaganda had many Americans *believing* that the Japanese
would fight to the last man, woman and child, as well as continue to
fight anywhere and everywhere throughout the Pacific.  But the reality
was much different.  Even though some fighting did continue after the
atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it was very limited and
sporadic.  The occupation of Japan lasted only five years following
the war, in contrast to the ten years of occupation that Germany had
to endure.  And to this day, Japan remains a free and democratic
state.

--Lee


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