Text 37000, 118 rader
Skriven 2006-08-20 07:09:00 av LEE LOFASO (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av BOB KLAHN
Ärende: CELEBRATION!
====================
Hello Bob,

>LL>Face it, Bob.  Harry S Truman was a mass murderer.  The
>LL>Japanese high command had offered to surrender a full month
>LL>*before* the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  Now

>BK>As I recall, it was an offer of a condition filled surrender.

>LL>Of course it was.  After all, none of the Japanese high
>LL>command wanted to put on trial and sentenced to death.

BK>Since the Japanese high command were guilty of more murders than
BK>died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they had no right to expect
BK>anything else.

What exactly was the Japanese high command guilty of?  Fighting
a war is not exactly a war crime, now is it?  Of course, the victors
got to decide who was to be executed, and who was not.  And we all
know who the "victors" were.

>BK>Removing a system that was more evil than even Bush claimed for
>BK>Iraq was necessary. The fact that the Japanese leadership was
>BK>not willing to agree to it meant that we would have had to
>BK>invade.

>LL>The Empire of Japan was a military dictatorship.  The
>LL>people of Japan had little (if any) say in how things were
>LL>run.  But how does any of what you said justify an already
>LL>defeated Japan?  Was it so important to hang the military
>LL>leaders of Japan, rather than accept a Japanese surrender?

BK>It was that important to remove the existing system. And that
BK>includes hanging the military commanders.

Including forcing Emperor Hirohito to renounce his claim of godhood.
Of course, the new Emperor has never renounced his own claim of godhood.
Or did you know that?

>BK>I will argue that what we did in insisting in a total change was
>BK>a net gain for the Japanese. If you think we have a problem with
>BK>trafficing of women, slavery, in Japan they didn't consider it a
>BK>problem, but a normal part of life. Before the war the
>BK>militarists solved their problem with internal disagreement by
>BK>killing the peace and democracy advocates.

>LL>The Saudis have no problem with the trafficking of women
>LL>and slavery, etc.  And neither do we, in regards to the
>LL>Saudis.

BK>I am perfectly willing to see the govt of Saudi Arabia
BK>overthrown.

And replaced by what?  A surrogate for Osama bin Laden?

>BK>I have read of what was done to our troops who were POWs, but
>BK>they did the same sort of things to civilian prisoner. The abuse
>BK>of civilian populations in conquered territories qualified the
>BK>entire Japanese military as a terrorist organization.

>LL>Even though the Japanese did not always treat American POWs
>LL>in accordance with the Geneva Conventions, we supposedly
>LL>treated Japanese and German POWs in accordance with those
>LL>conventions. As for civilian populations, what do you think
>LL>we did with those who collaborated with the enemy?  THE
>LL>SAME THING THE JAPANESE DID TO THOSE WHO COLLABORATED WITH
>LL>THE ENEMY.

BK>No, we did not. We did not order mass rape as a punishment. We
BK>did not rape women to death as a punishment. We did not commit
BK>mass murder as punishment.

Many Okinawans would disagree with you.  Especially Okinawan women.
And Tojo certainly would have disagreed with you, had he been allowed
to live.  Not to mention the vast majority of Japanese and Japanese
Americans interned in America during WWII.

>BK>For that the Japanese system had to be brought down. Which the
>BK>Japanese leadership was unwilling to do.

BK>...

>LL>many more died later, in great pain, from radiation
>LL>poisoning.

>BK>Not as many as you think. Both cities are now inhabited again,
>BK>and bigger than ever. I have also read that the residents of
>BK>those cities have a longer life expectancy than the average. One
>BK>of the factors that led to a study that seems to show that
>BK>exposure to somewhat elevated radiation levels increases life
>BK>expectancy.

>LL>Most died instantly.  Others died later, over the course of
>LL>decades, from radiation poisoning.

BK>Radiation poisoning kills much faster than that. I believe you
BK>are confusing radiation induced cancer etc.

Radiation poisoning includes radiation induced cancer, and kills
over a long period of time.  Not just within days or weeks, but also
over the course of decades.

>LL>There is nothing good about dropping atomic bombs (or nuclear bombs)
>LL>on living people.

BK>There is nothing good about droping any kind of bomb on living
BK>people. Sometimes the alternative may be worse. I won't even try
BK>to argue whether or not it was necessary then. I will say it was
BK>not what you claim it to be.

What alternative can be worse than dropping atomic or nuclear bombs
on civilian population centers?

--Lee


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